I'm sure this argument could go on for days if one of us does not put a stop
to it. You can get as fundamental as stating that energy is not lost because
it is just changed from one form or another. Can you see where this is going.
I'm sure most of the listees want to discuss Vanagons and not Physics 101.

I already rested my case so now I will shut-up.

BenT
oos