Also....
It should be noted that not only do all after market springs sag... so do original stock springs... that's why many of us are looking for new springs :)

So the question is not if a spring will sag or not... but ... what is the acceptable or normal rate of spring sag?

If we take the average stock spring sag over the past 10 years and divide by 10 perhaps that would be a reasonable expectation (perhaps the first year be adjusted by an expected greater amount?)... perhaps Steve will help us by putting this concept into numbers since he has done all the research on stock spring heights and average spring sag.

Also... the first set of Bett front springs (via Mark Drillock) has been installed on some vans now for about 9 months or so... I believe Steve reported recently that the sag on these has been... straining my memory here... about less than 1/4 inch... that being mostly right in the beginning... a sort of a set in period... and then no further sag since... I think... Perhaps Steve could re post this information here.

Bill
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Derek Drew 
  To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:06 AM
  Subject: All Aftermarket Springs Sagg Lower Over Time, Germans Find

  Another killer message from Axel. 

  Asked about Springs, he says the Europeans used to make special syncro springs but that they stopped doing this because after one trip or one year the springs would start to decay. As a result, the Europeans found that the only two springs worth having were either the factory Springs or the Seikel springs. As he says, "All other, we tested are more or less for one journey or for one year." 

  But Axel admits the Seikel springs were too hard for many users. 

  So the common solution in Europe, he says, is to use the factory springs with spacers under them!!

  Drawing inferences from this stunning email, one can draw some observations: 

  1. If David Marshall springs do indeed sag over time, this is entirely normal experience for the Europeans too. In a way, this lets David out of the dog house. Who could have predicted this problem? 

  2. It would make sense to begin measuring Betts springs installations now so any extent of sagging is documented over time. If the Betts springs escape the syndrome, then we can make Steve the Worldwide producer of the only aftermarket non-sagging spring! Are you ready to ship to Europe, Steve? 

  3. Axel tries to scare us into raising our vans no more than 3cm. I had earlier postulated 2.5cm as the target amount so there is some correlation here. 

  All sagg together now...

    From: (Axel Elsner)
    To: "Derek Drew" <derekdrew@rcn.com>
    Subject: AW: Bernd Jaeger gearwheels
    Derek,
    None of the Americans want the Seikel springs, saying they are too hard, so they have manufactured other springs that are not so stiff, but that are stiffer than the factory springs. 
    Axel: 
    Yes, I agree, the Seikel are only used now, if it comes to single or crew cabs with camping cabins etc. and the wight of the vehicle is 3200 kg or more. Please find attached a picture with me and a friend of mine with such a Seikel cab (3350 kg in sumary).
    But the Seikels have a great benefit: They keep their parameters for a long time. All other, we tested are more or less for one journey or for one year. Thats the reason, we normaly keep the original springs and add some distance disks under the springs. And please, never forget: If you make the springs longer then 3 cm against the original the problems with the cv-joints and special with the boots are increasing dramaticaly. if you don`t want higher then those 3 cm, you don`t need other springs.
     
    best regards
     
    Axel

  _______________________________________________
  Derek Drew                                            New York, NY 
  CEO & Co-Founder 
  http://www.ConsumerSearch.com/
  80 South Street, 2nd Floor
  New York, NY 10038
  derekdrew@rcn.com
  212-580-6486 

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