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Subject:Re: Coolant air, overflow, fried head gasket, "burping" out air (long)
From:Bill Davidson
Date:Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:31:32 -0800

Steve,
It sounds like the symptoms of engine exhaust entering the coolant system.... as an internally blown head gasket.... you can confirm that if you can get a shop that has a sniffer used for smog testing to test the fumes coming out of the coolant tank....

btw... I wouldn't breathe too much of that white cloud coming out of the exhaust.... coolant is toxic and harmful to your health...

Good Luck,
Bill

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Gough 
  To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 2:58 PM
  Subject: Coolant air, overflow, fried head gasket, "burping" out air (long)

  Great list.  Your advice (and patience with my first post) please:
   
  I'm now the proud owner of an '86 Westy, bought from a guy who'll remain anonymous.  He lives 950 miles away and I drove that newly purchased van all the way back to my home in St. Louis fighting coolant overflows and the blinking red light.
   
  Before I bought it, PO did flush and fill, then later a radiator replacement.  He worried that not all the air was out yet and advised I stop and "burp" the expansion tank if the blinking light showed low coolant.
   
  The engine ran (still runs) great, plenty of power.  But after only a few miles, she spit a lot of coolant out of the fill (license plate) tank.  (I trailed a nice steam cloud as it hit the muffler).  Following PO's advice, I would "burp" the expansion (with pressure cap) tank.  Lots of "air" would come out.  This went on for many, many miles:  coolant overflow and/or blinking red light, find a place to stop, "burp" tank, sometimes add coolant.  The intermittently overflowing fill tank would leave a nice mist of coolant on the back window at interstate speeds.
   
  Maybe you are laughing now.  At about mile 600, I realized that "burping" the expansion tank of a hot engine was just flashing a lot of the coolant to steam (as it went from 14psi or whatever to zero) and the "bad air" I was letting out was steam and that I was probably forming steam voids elsewhere in the system as well.  Very stupid of me.  If anything, stopping every 15 miles to make the problem worse.  Perhaps I define "knowing enough to be dangerous."
   
  Engine runs great still, but now I get intermittent white smoke from the tailpipe and water dripping from it.  Even after I stoped my dumb "hot burping," still got a lot of air coming out of the expansion tank (replaced the pressure cap about halfway through the trip, hoping that was the problem).  Evidenced by a train of little bubbles entering the fill tank when the engine was hot.
   
  I am fearing that my hot-engine-burping, or maybe the flush and fill or radiator replacement led to overheating and a bad head gasket.  I believe the PO's statement that the recently redone heads were fine before.  I checked the temp gage every 10 seconds, I swear, and it never got over 3/4 scale (stopping, slowing) and usually (on the highway) sat right over the little light.
   
  Something I learned that may help you:  The low coolant light is a "latch" circuit:  It stays on until the ignition is cycled off no matter what--I could often just pull over, turn off the ignition, restart, and no blinking light.  I attributed these transients to steam slowly venting out of the expansion tank (that little valve is very small).
   
  Please advise:  Have I fried a head gasket?  How can I tell if combustion gases are getting into the coolant and forcing it out?  I checked the archives:  Nobody has warned of "hot burping."  Is it so obvious (or am I that dumb)?  Can these engines really run so well when blowing/sucking coolant into/out of the cylinders?!
   
  BTW, I'm not looking to blame the PO or anybody but myself.  Just looking for advice on cause/diagnosis, and perhaps to warn others.  Feel free to highlight, make fun of, or discuss in detail my ignorance.
   
  Thanks,
   
  Steve Gough
   
  '86 Westy
  gone but not forgotten:  '69, '72 Beetles

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