I'd like to second that sentiment. I subscribe to this list to communicate
with fellow Vanagon enthusiasts and share relevant information. Not to
discuss religious and social issues.

Thanks,

Jon

> I know you said no direct content but...
> please refrain from postings such as this.  No direct content doesn't mean
> license to post whatever you wish.
>
> In other words, find another forum please.
>
> Mike Miller
> Sacramento
>
>> From: Ray Hunnam <hunnam@PNC.COM.AU>
>> Reply-To: Ray Hunnam <hunnam@PNC.COM.AU>
>> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:06:02 +1100
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Shape of the world - No Direct content to Listg Groups
>>
>> I thought I would share this with all of you.  My eldest daughter sent it to
>> me.  She is no way a religious person but I then to that at least she is
>> thinking.
>>
>> Ray Hunnam
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lisa Hunnam" <hunnam.lisa@shg.com.au>
>> To: <saza@ihug.com.au>; <sapphirechik@hotmail.com>;
>> <fraserj@wahs.nsw.gov.au>; <mjglover@gio.com.au>;
>> <Lisa.HOWARD@suncorpmetway.com.au>; <Jeannie.Hunnam@tafensw.edu.au>;
>> <hunnam@pnc.com.au>; <jonathan@stockland.com.au>;
>> <von_ireland@yahoo.com.au>; <mlance@aapt.com.au>; <kyliel@stockland.com.au>;
>> <hmcburn@laansw.com.au>; <asearle@abbotttout.com.au>;
>> <katie@stockland.com.au>; <smileychick81@hotmail.com>;
>> <vman129@hotmail.com>; <jasonw@stockland.com.au>; <sy@oticon.com.au>;
>> <sarah_271080@hotmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:17 AM
>> Subject: Shape of the world
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> This may help explain why the World is in the state that it is...
>>>>> Ray.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reportedly a True Story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Billy Graham's daughter, Anne, was being interviewed on the Early Show
>>>> about
>>>>> recent events in America, and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God
>> let
>>>>> something like this happen?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response.
>>>>> She said, "I believe that God is deeply saddened by this, just as we
>>> are,
>>>>> but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get
>>> out
>>>>> of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman
>>>> that
>>>>> He is, I believe that He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God
>>> to
>>>>> give us His blessing and His protection if we demand that He leave us
>>>>> alone?"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I know there have been a lot of emails going around in regards to
>>> 9/11/01,
>>>>> but this really makes you think. If you don't have time, at least skim
>>>>> through it, but the bottom line is something to think about ... In
>>> light
>>>> of
>>>>> recent events...terrorist's attack, school shootings, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare (she was
>>>> murdered,
>>>>> her body was found recently) complained she didn't want any prayer in
>>> our
>>>>> schools, and we said OK.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school... the
>> Bible
>>>> that
>>>>> says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your
>> neighbour
>>> as
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we said, OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when
>> they
>>>>> misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we
>>> might
>>>>> damage their self-esteem. (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide).
>>>>>
>>>>> And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we said
>>> OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then, someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our
>>>>> children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no
>>>> faculty
>>>>> member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave
>>> because
>>>> we
>>>>> don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued
>>> (There's
>>>>> big difference between disciplining and touching, beating, smacking,
>>>>> humiliating, kicking, etc.) And we said, OK.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they
>> want,
>>>> and
>>>>> they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said, OK.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and
>>>> they're
>>>>> going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
>>> so
>>>>> they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their
>>>>> parents they got them at school. And we said, OK.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we
>>> do
>>>> in
>>>>> private as long as we do our jobs. And agreeing with them, we said it
>>>>> doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President, does in
>>> private
>>>>> as long as I have a job and the economy is good.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude
>> women
>>>> and
>>>>> call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the beauty of the
>>> female
>>>>> body.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we said, OK.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then someone else took that appreciation one-step further and
>>>> published
>>>>> pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making
>> them
>>>>> available on the Internet.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we said OK; they're entitled to their free speech.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then the entertainment industry said; let's make TV shows and
>>> movies
>>>>> that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. And let's record
>>> music
>>>>> that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we said its just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, and
>>> nobody
>>>>> takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why
>>> they
>>>>> don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill
>>>>> strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it
>>> out.
>>>>> I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."
>>>>> "Dear God, Why didn't you save the little girl killed in her
>> classroom?
>>> "
>>>>> Sincerely, Concerned Student... AND THE REPLY "Dear Concerned Student,
>>> I
>>>> am
>>>>> not allowed in schools". Sincerely, God.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the
>>>>> world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say,
>>> but
>>>>> question what the Bible says.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to
>>>>> believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how someone can say, "I believe in God" but still follow Satan
>>> who,
>>>> by
>>>>> the way, also "believes" in God.
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how we are quick to judge but not to be judged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they
>>> spread
>>>>> like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord,
>>>>> people think twice about sharing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through
>>>>> cyberspace, but the public discussion of God is suppressed in the
>>> school
>>>> and
>>>>> workplace.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an
>>>>> invisible Christian the rest of the week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you laughing?
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send it to
>>>> many
>>>>> on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or
>> what
>>>> they
>>>>> will think of you for sending it to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me
>>> than
>>>>> what God thinks of me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you thinking?
>>>>> Pass it on if you think it has merit.
>>>>> If not then just discard it ... no one will know that you did. But, if
>>> you
>>>>> discard this thought process, then don't sit back and complain about
>>> what
>>>> a
>>>>> bad shape the world is in!
>>>
>>>
>>>
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