I agree - this is very similar to the procedure I went with when I
'acquired' an abandoned Type III in Ontario.  I couldn't register it until I
got the Registration/Transfer of Ownership Document from the owner.
Luckily, ICBC in Victoria BC (bless them) tracked him down and he mailed
them to me, 2 years after first abandoning the car.  What luck!

So I'm wondering, what's the difference between a Title and Registration?
You can't get a car on the road without either, so for practical purposes
what's the diff?  What is the purpose of a title anyway?

Jeff
(showing my ignorance in these legal-type matters.)

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Marshall" <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: HELP!! What is the State of my Title?

> Oh my - what a complicated system you have.  I know this isn't helping
your
> situation any, but in Canada we do not have vehicle titles.  In my glove
> compartment is a 'registration' and my 'insurance'.  The insurance says
that
> I have insurance that is valid throughout Canada and the USA and that I am
> covered for up to X million dollars for liability ($200,000 is the legal
> minimum) and Y deductible for Fire / Theft / Vandalism and Z deductible
for
> damage that I do to the vehicle.  The registration is attached to my
> insurance and gets printed off every time I get my insurance renewed.  It
> has the basic information of; my name, address, vehicle make, model,
weight,
> colour and VIN number - that's it.
>
> If I was to buy a vehicle, all I need is the registration and a form from
my
> insurance company (ICBC - gov't insurance) that is basically a formal
> bill-of-sale with my name, drivers licence number, the buyer, their DL
> number and the amount the vehicle is sold for.
>
> If I bought a vehicle from my friend who lives in the same province all I
> need is the registration and the official bill of sale, I go to the
> insurance place and pay my 7.5% provincial tax on the purchase price, $28
> for the registration fee and that's it.  If I want to drive it, I need to
> buy insurance.
>
> If the vehicle comes from out of the province I need a signed bill of
sale,
> mechanical inspection and a copy of the registration - pay the above fees
> and I am done.
>
> The only thing that I have a title to is my house...
>
> David Marshall
>
> Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
> 4356 Quesnel Hixon Road
> Quesnel BC Canada  V2J 6Z3
>
> http://www.fastforward.ca    mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
> Phone: (250) 992 7775        FAX: (250) 992 1160
>
> - Vanagon Accessories and Engine Conversions
> - Vanagon, Transporter and Iltis Sales and Importation
> - European Lighting for most Volkswagen models
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
> Of Budd Premack
> Sent: April 8, 2002 9:35 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: HELP!! What is the State of my Title?
>
>
>  Can anyone direct me to a source to title an 85 Westy, which has SERIOUS
> title problems?
>
>      The Background....
>
>  Last year I obtained an eBay van from a CA dealer.  The body was fine,
but
> it had severe engine problems, so it was towed to MN by my trusty 86
Syncro.
> (Slow and steady wins the race.)  Sometime (a long time) later it ran fine
> after engine surgery.
>
>  The CA dealer directed me to apply for a MN title once the van was
> operational in MN.  Because a non-functioning vehicle cannot pass the smog
> test, a CA dealer cannot sell it to an individual.  I arranged for a
> transfer via Bill of Sale from the CA dealer to a MN dealer who is a
friend.
> The plan was for the MN dealer to get a MN title and then transfer it to
me.
>
>      The Problem....
>
> The van had been junked in CA, resulting in the CA DMV canceling its
title.
> The CA DMV wrote me a letter indicating this title status.  (Want to guess
> how easy that  was to procure?)  Last summer (with the CA DMV letter and
> Bills of Sale in hand) my friendly MN dealer was able to obtain MN RV
plates
> (which expired 2-28- 02) while submitting a request for a MN title.
> However, after a wait of several months, MN would not issue a new MN title
> as there was obviously still a record of the CA title.  (After a canceled
> title has been stale for at least 3 years, MN will waive this requirement,
> but who wants to wait!)  MN indicated that I needed to get the title
> reissued by CA, as MN wouldn't issue a title for a vehicle that had (that
is
> the operative word) a title in any other state..
>
> In order to obtain a reissued title, CA stated I needed a CA Junk Receipt
> and Bills of Sale from all interested parties in the chain of title.  I
> already had all the requisite Bills of Sale.  (Hey, do you think I am a
> complete dummy for buying a van without a title?  All who answered "yes"
can
> commence laughing promptly.)  After numerous unsuccessful attempts at
> securing the Junk Receipt from the CA dealer, I was able to locate the
prior
> dealer, who had officially junked the van and then sold it to my dealer.
> The "junk" dealer was extremely cooperative and provided me with a copy of
> the elusive Junk Receipt.
>
> Further communication with the Special Field Office of the CA DMV resulted
> in their following cooperation in my efforts to revive the CA title:
>
> 1. Permission was granted to avoid the smog test (as the van was to be
only
> titled, but not registered, in CA, as the intention was to register it in
> MN, which has no smog test).
>
> 2. Permission was granted to have the brake and light inspection done by
an
> official state inspection outside of CA.  (Naturally, MN has no vehicle
> inspection of any sort, so I guess I could go to IA to find an official
> state inspector.)
>
> 3.  However (We all knew there was going to be a however, didn't we?), the
> regular vehicle inspection could only be done by a CA DMV official or by a
> member of the CA Highway Patrol (CHIPS).  Unfortunately, they don't make
> house calls.  (Apparently, the rules for inspection of previously junked
> vehicles are strict in CA.)
>
>     The Solution....
>
> This saga leads to several interesting choices:
>
> 1.  Transport the van to CA for the vehicle inspection.  Of course it
can't
> be driven there as it has no current license plates.
>
> 2. Park the van for 2 more years to comply with the MN 3 year rule.
>
> 3.  Drive the van with plates "borrowed" from a junked van of similar
> vintage, and possibly attempt to switch all of the serial numbers.  (This
is
> known as the witness protection system.)
>
> 4.  Arrange for an accident, and collect the fair market value from my
> insurance company.  (Since all of us Listees know how fair and generous
> insurance companies typically are in valuing 15 year old Westys, this
> technique is a leading candiate if one can omit any ethics issues.)
>
> 5.  Ask the List for help in finding a cooperative venue where the van can
> be titled and then re-registered in MN.
>
> HELP!!!!!   HELP!!!!!
>
> Can anybody hear a voice crying in the governmental bureaucratic
wilderness?
>
>
> p.s. For those of you who remember me from my past Listee life, please
note
> my new email address: bpremack@mn.rr.com
>
>
>
> Budd Premack
> 86 Syncro (and a host of others)
> Minneapolis, MN (Land of Sky-Blue Waters)
>