I couldn't agree more, my apologies to the list.

4th Amendment rights aside, my Vanagon is faster than your Vanagon...

Joe T.

----Original Message Follows----
From: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Reply-To: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Just cause
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:59:33 -0700

Methinks we're starting to get a bit off-topic here.  Heading down that
slippery slope to anarchy (till TC steps in) again.

Karl Wolz

----- Original Message -----
From: "JM/CO" <jmerritt2@CAPECOD.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Just cause

 > This type of "cover my own ass, and to hell with society in general"
 > attitude is what is allowing the further spread of Fascism in America.
What
 > do you think the 1776 generation would have had to say about this? I
don't
 > think they would go for it one bit.
 > How did Adolph Hitler & Co. gain control of Germany in the early '30s?
The
 > PEOPLE let him.
 > Spending a night in the local slammer never really hurt anyone. You might
 > learn something about how America REALLY works these days.
 > The part of the Constitution which is under the most assault these days
is
 > the 4th amendment, and it's being shredded rather rapidly by GW Bush & co
 >  we have to make the country "safe" ), although Bill Clinton's bunch was
not
 > without guilt either. If folks are being "profiled" for driving Westys,
or
 > whatever, we are in deep trouble in this country. Don't give into this
crap.
 > Tell the police ( politely, of course) where to put it.
 > Chuck
 > '83 Westy
 > '84 Jaguar XJ-6 VDP
 > '86 Buick Skyhawk Hatchback
 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: joseph Trussell <joetruss@HOTMAIL.COM>
 > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
 > Date: Thursday, May 16, 2002 12:07 PM
 > Subject: Re: Just cause
 >
 >
 > >Outstanding.  Give that speech to a southern cop.  Then maybe the list
will
 > >be nice enough to come up with your bail money.
 > >
 > >I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that it is how it is...You
can
 > >talk about personal freedom all you want, but being from the Third World
 > >Republic of Louisiana, I've seen and heard of police doing far worse
things
 > >to people than simply search their cars, for far less of an offense than
 > >being profiled.
 > >
 > >The freedom to not sit in a crappy little town's jail cell for a night
for
 > >backtalk or assault or whatever the hell they decide to pin on you is
worth
 > >the time for them to do a simple search.
 > >
 > >And while affecting change in the procedures of small-town cops on a
 > >grassroots level by being a smartass (in their views) and "politely
 > >declining" and possibly getting my ass thrown in jail for the greater
good
 > >of personal freedoms for all drivers, YOU CAN HAVE IT.
 > >
 > >I'd rather be driving out of town.
 > >
 > >"A man gazing on the stars is proverbially at the mercy of the puddles
in
 > >the road." --Alexander Smith
 > >
 > >Joe T.
 > >Denver, CO
 > >'85 GL 'bertha'
 > >'66 Westy
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >----Original Message Follows----
 > >From: DaveC <voicebox@DNAI.COM>
 > >Reply-To: DaveC <voicebox@DNAI.COM>
 > >To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
 > >Subject: Just cause
 > >Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:35:36 -0700
 > >
 > >>I was going cross country a couple of years ago in my last '85 GL, and
 > >>stopped in Dumas, TX to get gas and try to figure out why my clutch
wasn't
 > >>engaging all the way...The sherriff and two deputies showed up at the
gas
 > >>station where I was parked, probably noticed the "Widespread Panic"
 > sticker
 > >>on the back, and asked politely what I was doing and if they could
search
 > >>my
 > >>vehicle.
 > >>
 > >>I obliged, and while they were searching I was busy finding the leak in
my
 > >>clutch slave cylinder (they were very accomodating as far as me going
 > about
 > >>my business while they looked,) they did a quick run-through from front
to
 > >>back, top to bottom, and told me I was free to go...
 > >>
 > >>Five days later, I was sitting in a beach parking lot in Pensacola
Beach,
 > >>FL
 > >>eating a sandwich, and two bicycle cops rode up and asked if they could
 > >>take
 > >>a look; one of them asked me if I was smoking pot (I wasn't.)  They
looked
 > >>through the whole van, all my stuff, engine bay, etc. and didn't find
 > >>anything either.  When they were finished, I asked them one question:
 > >
 > >-=-=-=-
 > >
 > >Why the *hell* would you consent to a voluntary search? The US
 > >constitution guarantees freedom from search where there is no just
 > >cause (something you're doing that raises their suspicions) to do so.
 > >(Eating a sandwich, and diagnosing a clutch problem, last time I
 > >looked, wasn't a suspicious behavior.) Your *guaranteed* freedoms as
 > >a US citizen does not require surrender of your freedom from
 > >unreasonable search. (Where's the logic in that?)
 > >
 > >These morons were practicing "profiling", the practice of legal
 > >prejudice. Don't make this kind of behavior acceptable. Politely and
 > >*firmly* decline the request. Every time. If they have just cause,
 > >they'll tell you so. If they have no just cause, they ask. Say "No".
 > >
 > >To consent to these searches makes it more and more likely that the
 > >others of us who don't consider owning a Vanagon just cause will be
 > >seen as "easy" targets by these goons.
 > >
 > >Freedom belongs only to those who choose to exercise them. The more
 > >you cave into fear, the fewer freedoms we all will have.
 > >
 > >Thanks for nothin'.
 > >
 > >Dave
 > >--
 > >Dave Carpenter
 > >
 > >Whatever you wish for me,
 > >May you have twice as much.
 > >
 > >"Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think
 > >we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering." -- Arthur C.
 > >Clarke
 > >
 > >
 > >_________________________________________________________________
 > >Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
 > >http://www.hotmail.com

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