Bug engine cases. Is this VW Beetles?

What are vanagon engine cases - not mag ally I presume.
What are vanagon  transmission cases made of?

Clive

'spect we'd get locked up for that over here - but then reading the 'Burning
Man' web link about how dangerous burning magnesium is - perhaps
understandably. Makes one realise what absolute hell was unleashed on
Dresden in a single night - after our 8000 and 4000 lb blockbusters took
roofs off and blew the windows in, 650,000 incendiaries went down, many
magnesium I imagine.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill N" <freeholder@starband.net>
To: "Clive Smith" <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Fire Extinguishers

> Yes, definitely.  Bug engine cases.  I have attended the burning of
several.  You have to start
> with quite a bonfire to get them going, but once you do...   Well, at the
Jerome Jamboree in
> Jerome Arizona a few years ago, a fire department responded from about 20
miles away.  It lit
> up the whole mountainside.
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Clive Smith" <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:05 PM
> Subject: Re: Fire Extinguishers
>
>
> >
> > Hey I said engines not anciliaries  :-)
> > Let have the gospel on this from someone who knows..
> >
> > ...are there any VW engine 'blocks' made of magnesium alloy -
definitely,
> > not supposedly?
> >
> > ... and I hope my Syncro transmission case isn't mag ally...
> >
> > Clive
> > '88 Syncro Transporter
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stan Wilder" <wilden1@juno.com>
> > To: <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM>
> > Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: Fire Extinguishers
> >
> >
> > > Ho! Ho! Ho! and a bottle of cheap gin is awarded to Clive.
> > > The Type IV engines have Magnesium Fan Shrouds and Transmission Cases.
> > > Get that fire under control early even if you have to use vigorously
> > > shaken cold beer for fire extinguishers.
> > > (That has worked for me, not on a VW).
> > >
> > > Stan Wilder
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 01:54:59 +0100 Clive Smith
> > > <clive.harman-smith@NTLWORLD.COM> writes:
> > > > > Two questions
> > > > > 1.  Do Vanagon engines have magnesium in them?
> > > > > 2.  Wouldn't fire depts know this (if true) and avoid putting
> > > > water on
> > > > these
> > > > > car fires?
> > > >
> > > > 1) NO, despite it having been said in this list a few times, the
> > > > alloys in
> > > > the any auto engine, are not magnesium based, they're alumium based,
> > > > and the
> > > > alloying elements mainly used for casting alloys are silicon and
> > > > manganese
> > > > (and I can't remember what else).
> > > >
> > > > I may be wrong, but you'll have to go some to prove that anyone
> > > > would cast
> > > > any significant quantities of mag ally's into an auto engine - for
> > > > one, all
> > > > the threads would have to have inserts.
> > > >
> > > > 2) The question therefore doesn't arise, but if it did in
> > > > prepoderance,
> > > > they'd soon find out that mag ally's were being used a lot.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe someone should try setting a (real) mag ally wheel on fire -
> > > > bet
> > > > that's be a job - then spray it with water.
> > > >
> > > > Clive
> > > > '88 Syncro Transporter
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dan Erlandson" <danoer1@ECLIPSE.NET>
> > > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > > > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 1:37 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Fire Extinguishers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Well...  This is what I heard from a former student (I am a high
> > > > school
> > > > Chem
> > > > > teacher) who was also on the emergency squad in his town.  I can
> > > > speak to
> > > > > accuracy of the Chemistry aspect of this, but you'll have to fill
> > > > me in on
> > > > > the accuracy/truth of the story...
> > > > >
> > > > > My former student told me that he was on duty on night when they
> > > > received
> > > > a
> > > > > call about a vehicle on fire on Rte 287 in NJ.  When they arrived
> > > > the
> > > > > vehicle turned out to be a Vanagon and luckily no one was injured,
> > > > but as
> > > > > the fire dept arrived and began to put out the fire the whole
> > > > thing
> > > > started
> > > > > to really get going... the more they put on it (what were they
> > > > using ???)
> > > > > the worse it got...  The Van was reduced to cinders (supposedly).
> > > > What my
> > > > > student told me was that one of the firefighters said that the
> > > > engine must
> > > > > have a fair amount of magnesium in it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ok so here is the chemistry info...  Magnesium (they stuff they
> > > > used to
> > > > use
> > > > > in the old time disposable flash bulbs) is pretty slow to react at
> > > > room
> > > > > temperatures with air, water...  Acid makes it react very quickly
> > > > at R.T.,
> > > > > but turn that water into steam and Magnesium really reacts
> > > > quickly...
> > > > almost
> > > > > like the floating fire effect if you have ever seen sodium or
> > > > potassium
> > > > > react with water.  So it is true that if an engine had magnesium
> > > > in it
> > > > (what
> > > > > % ???) and that engine caught fire, then the conversion of any
> > > > water in/on
> > > > > the engine to steam would simply accelerate the fire.
> > > > >
> > > > > Two questions
> > > > > 1.  Do Vanagon engines have magnesium in them?
> > > > > 2.  Wouldn't fire depts know this (if true) and avoid putting
> > > > water on
> > > > these
> > > > > car fires?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd weigh in on the fire extinguisher question and say any (except
> > > > for
> > > > water
> > > > > based) would be ok.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- -- Dan Erlandson
> > > > > 99 Passat
> > > > > 91 Vanagon GL
> > > > > Flemington, NJ
> > > > > > danoer1@eclipse.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > From: Steven Dodson <steven@EPOCHDESIGN.COM>
> > > > > > Reply-To: Steven Dodson <steven@EPOCHDESIGN.COM>
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:08:36 -0700
> > > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > > > > Subject: Fire Extinguishers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What is the best type of extinguisher for our Vanagons?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Steven Dodson
> > > > > > Kneeland, CA
> > > > > > "Inga" the 87 Syncro
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of Larry Chase
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 8:09 AM
> > > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: vanagon Digest - 28 Aug 2002 to 29 Aug 2002 -
> > > > Special issue
> > > > > > (#2002-1044)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > OK, yah got my attention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "extinguisher would have eaten the metal of the engine block".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What's this about?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Happy Trails,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry Chase
> > > > > > 85 Westy "RoadHaus"
> > > > > > 90 Westy Syncro ... Soon
> > > > > > Mesa,  AZ
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - - - - - -
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date:    Wed, 28 Aug 2002 22:51:10 -0600
> > > > > > From:    Eric Nettles <enettles@IRAKUSA.COM>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Spare Parts List - Input
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oddly enough, and just to add debate, I was lucky that the fire
> > > > extinguisher
> > > > > > didn't work when my van's fuel lines went up... The fire was
> > > > small and
> > > > out
> > > > > > early, but an extinguisher would have eaten the metal of the
> > > > engine
> > > > block,
> > > > > > doing more damage than the fire did.  'S just what the friendly
> > > > local
> > > > > > firemen said as they swapped stories about all the vehicles
> > > > they'd
> > > > burned
> > > > > > themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
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