Righto Bill- the scientists have well spoken- dioxins are produced at high
temperatures, the burning of solids- and the occurrence of dioxins is very
low in water.

Since we are talking about water, and water tanks, and chlorine,  expert
facts are needed here, not knee-jerk reactions by the anti-chemical crowd
over chemicals which can do a lot of good when handled right.

In manufacturing  of certain tires , chlorine is added to make the butyl
rubber compound . Burning tires or plastics is an example of how
ozone-depleting dioxins can be produced.

The next time you see soemone spin their tires and "burn rubber', they could
be creating dioxins!Think about it-all of us have burned plastic or rubber
sometime in our lives.

Even indirectly if you have ever flown in a plane. When the tires hit the
tarmac they friction burn.

Robert

1982 Westfalia

>From: Bill N <freeholder@STARBAND.NET>
>Reply-To: Bill N <freeholder@STARBAND.NET>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: A WARNING!!! (Was: Cleaning the water tank!?)
>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:12:00 -0700
>
>I notice you preface this by stating you have no specialist knowledge of
>this subject.  While I
>appreciate your concern, your advice could get people sick.
>
>First, there is not a problem with home use of chlorine bleach causing
>production of dioxin.  I
>quote below from an FDA site"
>
>"Dioxin is an industrial by-product that is produced a number of ways.
>Dioxin is not produced
>by manufacturing sodium hypochlorite bleach, nor by using it in the home.
>To form it you'd need
>to introduce acidic solutions, concentrated chlorine gas, temperatures in
>excess of boiling or
>organic molecules such as those found in the cell walls of wood and paper."
>
>Chlorine can produce dioxin when it is being used to bleach paper pulp in
>paper mills, but will
>not do so in home use.  It is a very safe disinfectant that is used not
>only in water supplies,
>but also in almost every swimming pool and in many hot tubs, although I
>prefer bromine for hot
>tubs.
>
>Vinegar is not a general disinfectant.  It is an excellent cleaner for many
>applications,
>including cleaning the corrosion from copper brewing parts, and will keep
>many kinds of
>bacteria from growing, but it does this simply because of the PH.  Some
>bacteria don't like
>acid conditions.  Others (for example: acetobacteria) love these conditions
>and grow very well
>in vinegar.
>
>Keep in mind that the bacteria that cause food poisoning live very well in
>your stomach, which
>is a very acidic environment.  Don't count on vinegar to kill these.
>
>Vinegar is used in food preservation (pickles, for example) but is only
>used in conjunction
>with heat.  Any acid food product does as well as vinegar in this regard.
>That's why when you
>can food at home, pickles and tomatos can be processed in a water bath
>canner, while non-acid
>foods must be processed in a pressure canner to attain higher temps.
>
>Now, the fact is that one of the most effective things we can do to keep
>our water systems in
>our Westys safe is to simply drain the tank when we aren't using it.
>Anything else we do is
>just extra protection.  If you want to use vinegar, fine, but don't think
>you are disinfecting
>anything.  It will get the scale out, though.  Many dishwashing liquids do
>have a germicidal in
>them, so they could be effective, if you rinse them out well enough
>afterward.  If you use
>bleach, don't worry about it.  It won't hurt anything.  I will say you
>don't need to use nearly
>as much as many are saying.  1/4 cup is more than ample.
>
>BTW, my wife and I do have substantial "specialist knowledge" in this area.
>
>Bill
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Anthony Polson" <acpolson@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 5:43 AM
>Subject: A WARNING!!! (Was: Cleaning the water tank!?)
>
>
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I am not speaking from a basis of any specialist knowledge, but I am
> > dismayed to see several people, including yourself, recommending
> > Chlorine-based bleach as though it were intrinsically safe.
> >
> > In fact Chlorine-based bleach generates some of the world's most
>dangerous
> > chemicals, both in its manufacture and use.  These chemicals are called
> > Dioxins, and they pose a massive threat to human health and to the
>global
> > ecosystem as a whole.  There are strong links between Dioxins and cancer
>and
> > birth defects.  At Seveso, Italy, they were the cause of one of Europe's
> > most massive ever public health disasters.
> >
> >
> > I realise that European and American approaches to the environment are
>very
> > different, and that advice on hazardous chemicals may be less easily
> > available on your (western) side of the pond.  However, the principles
>of
> > chemistry are the same, and no-one who knows about Dioxins would risk
>their
> > production in a potable water tank.  Of all places, surely this is one
>where
> > Chlorine-based bleach must be avoided.
> >
> > I would forget the Chlorine-based bleach and go for a good scrub with
> > detergent followed by sterilisation with vinegar.  (Thanks Stan!)

Robert
1982 Westfalia 1987 Wolfsburg

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