You're a brave man...

The only exception to your argument would be when there is only one actual
bidder.  In this case, the bidder could've paid substantially less without
the shill bidding.  Obviously, the real bidder was willing to pay more, but
is it ethical that the seller drove the price up through shill bidding?

Additionally, I've heard tale of sellers who will shill bid beyond the
highest real bidder and then contact the real bidder after the auction to
offer the item because the "winning bidder" did not complete the
transaction.

It's an interesting topic but will probably be killed due to lack of Vanagon
content.

Cheers,

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
Of Ben McCafferty
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:33 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to
you?

Since we're on the subject, and it's Friday, I'd like to throw out a
*radical* notion for discussion.  I will assert that:  It is impossible to
manipulate an auction.

Our ol' pal Mr. Smith said that supply and demand will always equalize.  My
thought here is that if a seller uses bogus accounts to push up the price,
and real buyers bid higher anyway, they were willing to pay the higher price
and outbid the bogus buyers.

"What the market will bear" is still defined by what a real buyer is willing
to part with.  If the seller's bogus buyer drives the price up too high, the
real buyers will balk and walk away.

Donning asbestos suit....
bmc  :)

Ben McCafferty
ben@volkscafe.com

Volks Cafe
1823 Soquel Avenue
Santa Cruz, CA  95062
831-426-1244
http://www.volkscafe.com

> From: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
> Reply-To: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:28:58 -0800
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to you?
>
> Looks fine to me. The top 3 bidders have been E*bay members for several
> years. Out of 18 unique bidders, only 3 had zero feedback. Did you think
> your $1100 bid 10 days before the auction ended had even the remotest
> chance of winning a decent Syncro Westy? He said right in the ad that
> the reserve was $10,000.
>
> Mark
>
> 80 Westy Pokey wrote:
>>
>> I put an early bid in on a Syncro on eBay so I was following
>> the auction. Check out:
>>
>> http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
>> ViewBids&item=1876285309
>>
>> Seems like a high price, and lots of zero feedback bidders
>> pushing it up...
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> Chris