True, but nobody ever said that ethics and free market go together...

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben McCafferty [mailto:ben@volkscafe.com]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:29 PM
To: Jeffrey Schwaia; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish
yto you?

Hmmmmm, interesting scenarios, but in both cases, the buyer still paid what
they were willing to pay, no more, no less.  Now, I personally wouldn't do
this on an item I was selling, but I do see that the laws of free market
still apply, and the seller risks losing the sale by driving up the price
artificially.  Interesting.....
bmc  :)
Ben McCafferty
ben@volkscafe.com

Volks Cafe
1823 Soquel Avenue
Santa Cruz, CA  95062
831-426-1244
http://www.volkscafe.com

> From: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
> Reply-To: Jeffrey Schwaia <jeff@TSSGI.COM>
> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:35:51 -0800
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Manipulated auctions, was:  Re: Does this bidding look fish y
to
> you?
>
> You're a brave man...
>
> The only exception to your argument would be when there is only one actual
> bidder.  In this case, the bidder could've paid substantially less without
> the shill bidding.  Obviously, the real bidder was willing to pay more,
but
> is it ethical that the seller drove the price up through shill bidding?
>
> Additionally, I've heard tale of sellers who will shill bid beyond the
> highest real bidder and then contact the real bidder after the auction to
> offer the item because the "winning bidder" did not complete the
> transaction.
>
> It's an interesting topic but will probably be killed due to lack of
Vanagon
> content.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
> Of Ben McCafferty
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:33 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Manipulated auctions, was: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to
> you?
>
>
> Since we're on the subject, and it's Friday, I'd like to throw out a
> *radical* notion for discussion.  I will assert that:  It is impossible to
> manipulate an auction.
>
> Our ol' pal Mr. Smith said that supply and demand will always equalize.
My
> thought here is that if a seller uses bogus accounts to push up the price,
> and real buyers bid higher anyway, they were willing to pay the higher
price
> and outbid the bogus buyers.
>
> "What the market will bear" is still defined by what a real buyer is
willing
> to part with.  If the seller's bogus buyer drives the price up too high,
the
> real buyers will balk and walk away.
>
> Donning asbestos suit....
> bmc  :)
>
> Ben McCafferty
> ben@volkscafe.com
>
> Volks Cafe
> 1823 Soquel Avenue
> Santa Cruz, CA  95062
> 831-426-1244
> http://www.volkscafe.com
>
>
>> From: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
>> Reply-To: mark drillock <drillock@EARTHLINK.NET>
>> Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:28:58 -0800
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Does this bidding look fish y to you?
>>
>> Looks fine to me. The top 3 bidders have been E*bay members for several
>> years. Out of 18 unique bidders, only 3 had zero feedback. Did you think
>> your $1100 bid 10 days before the auction ended had even the remotest
>> chance of winning a decent Syncro Westy? He said right in the ad that
>> the reserve was $10,000.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> 80 Westy Pokey wrote:
>>>
>>> I put an early bid in on a Syncro on eBay so I was following
>>> the auction. Check out:
>>>
>>> http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?
>>> ViewBids&item=1876285309
>>>
>>> Seems like a high price, and lots of zero feedback bidders
>>> pushing it up...
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>> Chris