oops!

that should be 4 million gallons per day of motor fuel, NOT per year.
sorry.

dlk

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 16:18:42 -0500, Daniel L. Katz <katzd54@YAHOO.COM>
wrote:

>tom is correct, of course.
>
>as an example, the entire bonneville power administration (BPA)
>hydroelectric output is equivelent to approximately 4 million gallons of
>motor gasoline per year, which is roughly 1% of current consumption. that
>is, devoting the entire BPA hydroelectric output to hydrogen production
>(through electrolysis) would, theoretically, replace only 1% of motor
>gasoline.
>
>even if this much electric output were added per year, devoted entirely to
>hydrogen production, mass immigration and the intent of increasing GDP
>year after year would entirely absorb this new fuel supply.
>
>dlk
>
>On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:28:35 -0600, tom ring <taring@TARING.ORG> wrote:
>
>>What most people don't seem to understand, is we have to get that energy
>from
>>somewhere.  The only practical large scale sources right now are oil,
>coal,
>>relatives of the previous 2, hydro, and nuclear.  Of the "clean"
>alternatives,
>>wind and solar will never cut it in the near future, and probably not
>ever due
>>to the low power density of what they run off from, and hydro is maxed
>out, and
>>has it's own environmental problems.
>>
>>And soybeans, alcohol, etc don't count, 'cause they take about as much
>energy
>>to produce them as they deliver.
>>
>>So no matter what fuel you run in your vehicle, it's not going to be
>derived
>>from anything new in your lifetime.  Bet you lunch.
>>
>>tom
>>
>>On 16 Feb 2004 at 16:34, Steven Dodson wrote:
>>
>>> Sad but true.
>>> It's unfortunate that the oil tyrants are pushing their petrol-hydrogen
>crap
>>> as the next generation fuel. They're cramming it down the throats of
>>> Congress with their entourage of lobbyists.
>>> This is sad, when there is perfectly clean hydrogen available from
>>> electrolysis of water using energy from the sun. There are very highly
>>> efficient hydrogen generation machines that produce clean hydrogen at
>>> 250psi, powered by electricity from solar, wind or whatever. You would
>still
>>> need to compress it further for efficient storage as you would with any
>>> hydrogen.
>>> Even more sad, when petrol-hydrogen is nearly as costly to produce as
>the
>>> clean stuff.
>>>
>>> I heard that Iceland is going 100% hydrogen (made from water) within 5
>>> years. They are a huge producer of Aluminum products.
>>> The goal is to create an autonomous energy economy and clean up their
>>> industry and environment.
>>> This is a worthy goal!
>>>
>>> -Steven Dodson
>>> Kneeland, CA
>>> "Inga" the 87 Syncro (soon to be bio-TDI)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >Date:    Mon, 16 Feb 2004 15:33:58 -0500
>>> >From:    Tim Demarest <tim.demarest@POBOX.COM>
>>> >Subject: Re: "green" cars (NVC)
>>>
>>> >...and before anyone spouts off about that wonderful hydrogen
>technology,
>>> >remember that the current technology for manufacturing hydrogen is to
>crack
>>> >hydrocarbons... that's right, they still run (indirectly) on crude.
>>>
>>> >http://www.engr.psu.edu/h2e/Production.htm
>>>
>>
>>
>>------
>>Tom Ring K0TAR, ex-WA2PHW  EN34hx
>>85 Westphalia GL Albert
>>96 Jetta GL The Intimidator
>>taring@taring.org
>>
>>"It is better to go into a turn slow, and come out fast, than to go into
>a turn fast
>>and come out dead." Stirling Moss