Gerry strips attachments...

What's up?

tim (not opening any of your attachments) in san jose

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Walters" <sam.cooks@VERIZON.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: battery questions

> Attached are a few text files that I cut out of posts to the list about
> the same sort of problem.  They might help.
>
> Sam
>
> --
> Sam Walters
> Baltimore, MD
>
> 89 Syncro GL
> 85 Westy Weekender
> 84 Vanagon, original owner, soon to be retired, just too many problems
>
> All incoming and outgoing email scanned by
> automatically updated copy of Norton AntiVirus.
>
>

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> Check for source of battery drain
>
> sstones@DIRECT.COM
>
> Well...
> One way to start into tracking it down would be to pull each fuse out and
> check the amperage across the clips with a multi-meter.  Compare the ones
> that have significant amperage to the wiring diagram to try to guess for
> likely suspects, and narrow it down from there seeing what things do and
> don't have a positive voltage beyond their switches or relays.
>
> hradek@YAHOO.COM
>
> Steve,
>      make it simple.   Pull the fuse to the
> radio,clock and lighter and see if the problem goes
> away without that fuse.   This is the only circuit
> that is always on?   gary
>
> bearsvw2000@YAHOO.COM
>
> Take the fuse out to the clock, loosen the positive
> terminal on the battery, wait till dark or darken the
> battery area. Take the positive terminal and check for
> a spark, getting that, start pulling the circuit's
> fuses untill you loose the spark, this will be the
> circuit to check for a ground. This can also be done
> with a meter in line with the battery to check for a
> amp drop when the area of the problem is isolated. Phil

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> Doktor Tim's Battery Alternator Check
>
>
> To proof your battery and charging system follow these steps and skip none
> if you don't want to waste money on what it isn't.
>
> 1. Verify both ends of both batt cables are clean and tight. Same for the
> ground strap at the front tranny mount.
>
> 2. Verify the battery top and case is clean and dry.
>
> 3. Verify battery is fully charged. You need an accurate VOM for this and
> all the following.
>
> 4. Turn the key to on then turn on the bright headlights and blowers and
> watch as the volts drop to about 12.3v. Then turn everything off and watch
> the volts rebound to 12.6+ within a minute or two. If it drops lower than
> 12.3 within a minute or so, the battery is weak. If it will not rebound to
> at least 12.6 it is also weak. If the battery passes this test then you
can
> use the bucks you would have wasted on replacing a good battery to go to
> eBay and buy a quality $200 multimeter for the price of a good extra duty
> group 41 battery.
>
> 5. Only now are you ready for a test of the alternator. At idle, place one
> lead on the batt + and the other on the alt output. If you read more than
> 1/2 volt you have a problem with resistance in the wiring to the battery.
> Recheck the big lug connections at the starter for clean and tight. If you
> have less than 1/2volt drop, hook up the multimeter to batt + and - while
> idling. Should see 13.8 or so with no other loads. Turn on the brights and
> blowers. At idle should not drop below 13.3v. Rev to 2000+ and with the
> loads should not be less than 13.5v. Lower numbers say replace the weak
> alternator, but before you do, replace the indicator bulb. An old bulb can
> have resistance that will not keep the alternator excited.
>
> Over 95% of the time these steps will identify your problem and you won't
> waste a cent on good parts. The 5% is related to some very occasional
> issues of strange battery behavior. Battery continually tests good but let
> it sit for a few days and low charge. I have seen these strange batteries
a
> few times, and several that were new and had these strange faults from the
> get go. If I have truly verified all steps as above and still have issues,
> then I will disconnect the battery, put a full charge on it, load test and
> watch rebound come back good, then let it rest for several days while
> monitoring. If it drops more than a 1/2 volt in a week, then the battery
is
> weak. A dirty battery top will always fail this test from losses due to
> cross cell flow through the dirt/acid conductor all over the case.
>
> Easy squeezy test for cross cell flow. Connect multimeter + to batt +.
> Touch multimeter - to various places around the battery top. If you see a
> few tenths of a volt, not bad. If you see more than 1 volt, the case is
not
> clean. I have many times seen 8 to 12 volts cross cell flow on filthy
> batteries. This sucks the life out of the battery, alternator and starter
> and the continuous loss of amps means everybody must work under much
higher
> stress. You get no work from those lost amps and you must pay extra in
lost
> life of components to replace them.
>
> After all these items have been verified and you still have a draw issue,
> then begin looking for other items drawing amps in excess.

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> Checking alternator and for short discharging battery
>
> Take care to be safe while doing any of these suggestions!
> Simple ways to check things out without :
> Start engine and remove vehicle's positive lead from battery. DON'T short
to
> frame or let lead touch frame!
>
> If it continues to run alternator is working. Increase draw by turning on
> additional electrical units, headlights on high, a/c blower on high,
> continue with other things, if it kills the engine. Voltage regulator is
not
> working properly.
>
> If you believe you have a short in a system somewhere. Turn everything
> (lights, radio, etc) off first. In the dark unplug your fuses and replace
> them while watching for any sparks (do this with the engine running, then
> with it off but the key on and last with key off).
>
> Radio's, clock's and such, usually only give a little spark, shorts that
are
> draining your battery should be brighter. However don't put it past them
to
> be the problem. If you don't find any other sparks, leave their fuse out
and
> see if the battery still dies.
>
> The same thing with the alternator, with the engine OFF! Removing or
> replacing the battery terminal on the alternator, should NOT spark.
>
> Last year I worked on a (16 year old, know-it-all)  kids pickup. After HE
> installed a new starter, the truck began to stall but would start right
back
> up. This would happen when he'd make sharp turns, hit large bumps or take
> off fast. So he decided the truck needed a new battery. I offered to check
> it out but he (bosses live-in's boy) knew that it just needed a new
battery,
> fine...The problem continued the next day but this time it left him
stranded
> on the road. He had it towed home, where it sat for a few days (he was the
> only one smart enough to work on it).
>
> My boss grew tired of dropping him off at school and told me to check it
> out, but the kid would do all the repairs himself.
>
> Lifting the hood, I saw the bulging NEW ($102.00 only the best for his
> truck) frozen(mid November) battery. I pulled the positive lead (battery
out
> of circuit) off the battery and  was connecting the cables. They sparked
as
> if I was welding. Yanking them off. I traced the positive wire down and
> under the manifold but could not see it. So sliding my hand along the wire
I
> felt it welded to the manifold.
>
> Don't be afraid to ask, take the time to do it right and save yourself a
lot
> of trouble later.
>
> So, if you can't check out your alternator take it to someone who can.
> Paul
>
> oliver8@TDS.NET