Hooray!!!  Someone speaking up with some common sense.

Bottom line:  If the starter solenoid isn't working as designed, find what's
wrong & fix it!  Adding a relay is patching a problem.  How many thousands
of Vanagons have been working just fine without that added relay?  And
consider that relays are added electro-mechanical components that can and do
fail by themselves (especially if exposed to a harsh environment).

But, it's true that an added relay will reduce the existing voltage drop to
the solenoid and possibly make the system more robust - until something else
fails or the pre-existing problem continues to get worse.  How much more
robust?  Dunno.  I've never seen anyone quote any actual voltage
measurements.

It's interesting to note that the starter solenoid is actually a type of
relay; ie, it closes very heavy contacts to supply starting current to the
motor.  So adding a relay means there are actually 2 relays in series doing
basically the same thing.

Had intended to stay out of this.  Oh well.

//Jack

ps:  The headlights are a different story.  The original design more clearly
cut ($) corners.  There, in addition to increased light output, added relays
may be extending the life of the light switch; so, the benefit more clearly
outweighs the disadvantage.

Date sent:              Fri, 25 Jun 2004 10:36:14 -0400
Send reply to:          David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
From:                   David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:                Re: What is a Hard Start Relay Kit?  Who sells them?
To:                     vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM

> This is your conscience speaking ;-)
>
> IMNSHO* --
>
> Do the work and find out what your problem is.  If the problem is that you
> have poor wiring to the start solenoid, adding the relay might be an
> alternative to fixing the wiring.  If the problem is that the solenoid is
> mechanically sticky and won't operate normally, adding the relay might be a
> temporary alternative to repairing the solenoid.  If the solenoid has a
> shorted coil, adding the relay might  be a temporary alternative to replacing
> it.  If it's not any of these, a relay will do squat for you -- except make a
> tempting though expensive path to put off the tedious and maybe scary job of
> actually tracing the fault.
>
> :)
> d
> *In My Not So Humble Opinion, i.e. I declare myself an authority on this
> subject.  I so declare.  I've seen it operate too many times in my own
> retrospectoscope.  Most vivid example, not totally germane but close enough
> -- my Saab 96** right-rear brake became noisy.  At the time I'd never been
> inside a drum brake, scared to death of them, thought they worked by majick.
> I actually convinced myself that the noise was from the front, and replaced
> the pads.  The mixture of emotions when this had no effect, and the sure
> knowledge that I'd actually known it wouldn't, was...illuminating.  Searing,
> even.
>
> ** I seem to have been a glutton for punishment -- Sunbeam Alpine II, Fiat
> 128 Special, Saab 96 V4, '78 Plymouth Horizon, Vanagon.  Sigh...all except
> the Plymouth had delightful characteristics.  Plymouth had good paint and
> loved to suggest that it would really prefer going backside-first if I'd only
> find a little bigger tar strip for an excuse.  It was the Plymouth that
> having caught me bending over its innards beside a road on the Eastern Shore
> of MD, decided that the last big semi had whipped by a little too close --
> and folded its hood prop and hood right onto my head.
>
> At 08:27 6/24/2004, kevin obrien wrote:
> >Hello All:
> >
> >One of the List Members mentioned the solution to my
> >Ignition Switch Mystery (see my previous post) might
> >be a Hard Start Relay Kit.
> >
> >Can someone explain what they are & do...and how you
> >get one?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
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>
> --
> David Beierl - Providence RI USA -- http://pws.prserv.net/synergy/Vanagon/
> '84 Westy "Dutiful Passage," '85 GL "Poor Relation"