4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible to
chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I personally
have never seen that achieved.
--------------------- Clip ------------------------
How the hell do you get close enough to spray it with CO2?
Ever seen magnesium burn ?................. it is exactly like 1000 welding
rods burning at the same time.
When you look at the fire you can close your eyes and still burn your
eyeballs right through your eyelids.

Stan Wilder
www.engineceramics.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <jh_rodgers@BELLSOUTH.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Use this for fire safetey... AND eliminate the fire hazard...

> I almost agree with Stan on this.
>
> 1) If the magnesium in the engine area burns, steel engine covers will
> gain you some time to remove your valuables from the van. But the
> likely-hood of putting the fire out is slim.
>
> 2) Magnesium is so active at combustion temperatures it will burn under
> water by splitting oxygen from the H2O molecule and consuming it, also
> releasing hydrogen which will also burn so the fire department will do
> little good.
>
> 3) Magnesium will burn in a pure carbon dioxide environment, so CO2
> extinguishers will do little good. Magnesium burns so hot, and at
> burning temperatures is so chemically active a metal, that it will split
> the oxygen from the CO2 molecule and consume it, thus the fire keeps
> burning and tremendous amounts of pure carbon are released.
>
> 4) If enough CO2 is sprayed on the magnesium flame, it may be possible
> to chill the metal to a point below combustion temperature, but I
> personally have never seen that achieved.
>
> During WW II engine manufacturers used magnesium extensively in the
> aircraft engines, particularly the ones used in bombers, in an attempt
> to make the engines lighter so the aircraft could carry a bigger bomb
> load. Although there were fire suppression systems on board, pilots knew
> that if they had an engine fire, it was a given they were going to lose
> a wing, because with the wind of flight fanning the flames of a burning
> magnesium engine case, the engie mount, aluminum skin and spars in the
> wings were going to get hot enough to bend if not burn. Thus an engine
> would come off the airplane and there would be wing failure and crash.
>
> Though all this sounds terrible and the implication is bad for Vanagons,
> it is still prudent to do what one can to fire protect the vehicle, and
> make it possible to salvage as much as possible in the unfortunate event
> of a fire.
>
> I was told once about the  difference between a recession and a
> depression. A recession is when your neighbor is out of work. A
> depression is when you are  out of work. Statistically, not a lot of
> vehicles burn, but when it's your's, that's 100% to many.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL Driver
>
>
>
> Stan Wilder wrote:
>
> >Steel engine covers will not stop the fire from going into the interior
of
> >your Vanagon.
> >There are still magnesium parts on VWs. Like the fan shroud, tranny
cases.
> >Stan Wilder
> >www.engineceramics.com
> >
> >