Run the MMO about 300 miles.

Stan Wilder
www.engineceramics.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Miller" <mwmiller@CWNET.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Noisy lifters, rockers, at startup, etc (long)

> I think you're supposed to run the MMO for a little bit then drain it and
> put in fresh oil and filter.  Don't think you're supposed to run it long
> with MMO in there.
>
> Stan will know for sure.
>
> Mike
>
> On 8/8/04 2:42 PM, "Anonymous Digest" <jbrush@AROS.NET> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I bought this up on the air cooled list, so if Wil, and others who
offered to
> > help recall it, I don't want you to think I am second guessing, or
doubting
> > your
> > expertise. I appreciate the advice, and am just searching for more
opinions
> > and
> > theories.
> >
> > My air cooled, at 200K, is starting up with clacking lifters/rocker arms
way
> > too
> > often. Circumstances only allow me to drive it three or four days each
month,
> > so
> > for much of this year, it sits for at least several weeks between
starts. In
> > case anyone is curious, its an insurance issue, as I cannot afford to
insure
> > it
> > right now, but they do allow me to drive it four days a months, for a
tiny
> > flat
> > fee, but that means I cannot just drive it around the neighborhood every
few
> > days to keep it running happy, so I get one or two weekends out of it,
if I
> > plan
> > accordingly :-)
> >
> > I take a long trip, it runs great, and I sure feel badly about having to
let
> > it
> > sit for so long before I can drive it. I do so enjoy it. :-) It sits for
about
> > two an a half weeks, and when I finally start it up , I get  more than
just
> > one
> > lifter/rocker arm tapping, there are a mess of em "not happy" and it
takes
> > nearly twenty minutes of cruising easily through the neighborhoods to
quiet it
> > down. Not long ago, before I took it out to try and silence it, I put in
about
> > half a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil, as that has helped on rare occasions
> > before.
> > Did it help? Certainly not within five or ten minutes of idling. Its
still in
> > the crankcase, and I still have the issue when I start it up, so I am
not sure
> > it did much good.
> >
> > When it is so gosh-awful- noisy, it still runs just great, although it
sounds
> > like a V10 diesel, and its a bit embarassing to get those looks from
folks as
> > I
> > go by, or sit at a light.
> >
> > As an aside, it does blow a lot of oil on trips, and so I am quite
certain
> > that
> > I always have pretty fresh oil in the crankcase, as it gets a full
change on a
> > 1200 mile trip, and I ditch it, and the filter, after every adventure. I
feel
> > certain that it has never suffered from dirty oil over its lifetime, and
that
> > what is in there now is pretty fresh oil. Its been changed more than
four
> > times
> > this year so far, and the problem remains.
> >
> > I have taken to starting it up and letting it run for about ten or
fifteen
> > minutes every other day, in hopes of avoiding such stress with weeks
between
> > starts.  After two days, it will start up noisy, quiet down in ~15-20
secs,
> > but
> > for a  bit of a tap. I let it idle at about 1500RPM for ten minutes or
so. By
> > that time, it is running as quiet, and as "happy sounding" as it ever
has, the
> > oil temp is around 150 or 160 by then, in the summer heat.
> >
> > I have tried cranking the engine with the spark disconnected in order to
get
> > pressure up before letting it start, but I guess there is just not
enough oil
> > pressure at that slow speed to do much of any good. Used to help, but
not
> > anymore.
> >
> > Given the cash, I would just buy a new motor. Till then, I would like to
> > solicit
> > ideas and opinions, especially from those who "suffer" from this, and
who have
> > been inside the 2.0L aircooled motors. I am more of a V8 expert, so what
I
> > know
> > about the internals of these beasts, I have learned from you folks.
> >
> > I switched from the FLAPS Bosche filters to the Mahles from our online
vendors
> > a
> > few years ago,  although I don't blame the filters. With regards to the
filter
> > and the pressure valve on an air cooled engine, I fail to see the need
for it,
> > as the filter sits vertical, and not tilted as on the water cooled
motor, and
> > is
> > always full of oil, so I have no idea how such a pressure valve can have
any
> > effect on this engine.  I'd like to hear the technical, oil flow
explanation
> > for
> > it, if it is really considered critical. That notwithstanding, I use the
> > better
> > ones anyway, but so far, I see no proof that they  do any better
regarding
> > this
> > problem.
> >
> > My biggest concern is the excessive wear and damage I am doing to the
engine,
> > and I am soliciting thoughts as to what is the lesser of the evils.
> >
> > In my mind, the noise I am hearing is the clatter of the rocker arm
being
> > slightly "loose" if you will, as the lifter pumps up. Its not much of a
> > clearance deviation, but I assume its enough to make the racket. I can't
see
> > adjusting the lifters, as they do quiet down eventually, and the motor
is as
> > smooth as that "baby's butt" we all relate to :-) Would an adjustment
seem
> > necessary, or useful?
> >
> > Is that noise actually what I think it is, or is it a cam/lifter issue
that is
> > stressing the cam lobes, and gonna fail one day if I let it continue?
Its
> > loud,
> > but I am assuming its the rocker arm wacking the valve stem/spring, as
well as
> > the pushrod. Yes or no?
> >
> > I use 20-50W exclusively, cannot afford to use synthetic as the engine
has a
> > "blow by" problem and blows a lot of oil out the main seals and probably
other
> > places. Plus, changing over in a motor this old seems like a bad idea.
> >
> > It would seem to me that a lighter weight oil would be called for, to
pump up
> > the lifters faster, but I am just guessing about that.
> >
> > Since noise like this is caused by something stressing out, or being out
of
> > adjustment, I assume I am going to hose something one day unless I find
a
> > solution. Are there other components are taking the beating in this "dry
> > lifter
> > when it starts up" scenario?
> >
> > Is replacing the lifters a reasonable option, or will that cause undue
wear on
> > the cam and create a different, albeit still fatal, problem? Could the
problem
> > actually be somewhere else in the oil flow path, and is only manifesting
> > itself
> > in the lifter problem?
> >
> > If I end up doing nothing, I would like to know what the consensus is,
as to
> > which is the lesser of the two destructive evils, starting it up every
day, or
> > every other day, and idling it at ~1500RPM for a fifteen minutes, or
letting
> > it
> > sit for three weeks, and then starting it up ,and driving it till the
> > hellacious
> > noise drops away?
> >
> > I know this is kind of long. Just wanted to get out the facts and avoid
> > confusion if I can.
> >
> > Thanks for any advice. I appreciate it.
> >
> > John
> >
> >