Well put Leon.

We are the guests, and the bears hosts when in the woods. We should no more trash their home, or temp them, then we would want some ____________ to trash ours.

Mark in AK

----- Original Message -----
From: Leon <korkwood@WSHOST.NET>
Date: Thursday, August 19, 2004 12:05 pm
Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?

> When i hear about Mineral King it makes me want to go there...
> Did you do any backpacking there?
> Place is paradise
> Btw i know it's way off topic but if any of listees go to Sierras
> regularly i would like to hear about your experience, trips etc
> Pmail
> Leon
> 85 Subwagen
>
> On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:21:29 -0700, Steve Delanty
> <laurasdog@WEIRDSTUFFWEMAKE.COM> wrote:
>
> > Is it april fools day, or what?
> >
> > That was one of the most pathetically idiotic things I've ever
> read......>
> > Maybe when you're in the bears home, you should try and show a
> little> intelligence and respect for nature. People who do that
> never seem to
> > have any trouble with bears. It's always the lazy fools who who
> leave> food
> > laying around in sight, or insist on jerking around with the bears
> > instead
> > of leaving them alone who have trouble. It's A-holes like that
> who are
> > the
> > REASON for all the rules and regulations...
> >
> > Some moron lets his 12 year old kid play Rambo with the bears, and
> > the next thing, the kid is being airlifted to some hospital to
> see if
> > they
> > can sew the kids head back on. The peckerhead parents sue the
> > park service for letting "those dangerous" bears "molest" their
> kid, and
> > a bunch of lawyers make a lot of money. So now the park service has
> > to turn to serious measures to protect their asses, and assess huge
> > fines for leaving food in sight, or impound peoples cars to try
> and force
> > them into showing the same common sense that comes naturally to
> most.>
> > It's really a matter of a very few people screwing it up for the
> rest,> and
> > from your post it sounds like you are one of that type...
> >
> > Show a little respect, or stay out out of the parks and forests...
> >
> >
> > Oh yea, when I was in Mineral King last year, (with our Westy)
> we saw
> > a couple bears on a day hike. Later in the evening, I was in a
> trailhead> parking lot, and a ranger came through and looked in
> the windows of
> > all the cars in the lot (including the Westy). He wrote 2
> tickets in
> > that lot for people leaving fast food wrappers in plain sight on
> the seat
> > of their cars. $50 first offense...
> > Hey, they were warned with many signs on the way in. but were
> > obviously too lazy or stupid to be able to comply. I hope the second
> > offense is $5000...
> >
> > Steve-
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------
> > At 08:17 PM 8/18/2004, Doug in Calif wrote:
> >
> >> Robert,
> >> Now how did I know you would be the one to "take the bait"?  <grin>
> >>
> >> I just want those darn bears to feel as unwelcome in the
> campground and
> >> p-king lots as a screaming liberal at a Republican convention. <2nd
> >> grin>
> >>
> >> Just imagine the enthusiasm from your 12yr old son and his
> buddies on
> >> the
> >> camping trip knowing they can bring their paint ball guns
> loaded with
> >> pepper
> >> balls and night vision goggles and play open season commando
> with any
> >> bears
> >> that step foot in the campground or  parking lots looking for
> food!  I
> >> would
> >> have loved doing that at 12, heck, even now at 44.
> >>
> >> Next time you see a Ranger shoot a bear in the rump with a
> rubber bullet
> >> (which is standard procedure to save bears) just remind
> yourself that
> >> only
> >> people with "authority" should ever be allowed to do such a
> thing. We
> >> are
> >> just helpless, uncertified, untrained, unread, idiots, who
> don't know
> >> how to
> >> do anything for ourselves.We would probably shoot our eye out.
> Surely>> not
> >> chase away a bear with some real authority.  We must always
> rely on
> >> "professionally trained others" to do everything for us, even
> if they
> >> are
> >> nowhere around.   That way we are also never have to take any
> >> responsibility
> >> for anything we do or don't do, because everybody knows we
> always rely
> >> on
> >> others who know exactly what to do in their trained field.
> >>
> >> Anybody who thinks they know better is a just a drunk red neck,
> right?>> wrong.
> >>
> >> What is this? that if we take a firmer stance and empower the
> public to
> >> be
> >> more pro-active with bears it somehow means we are all a bunch of
> >> "slobs"?
> >> Geez I was just thinking of being able to leave food in my
> westy fridge
> >> without feeling like my door is going to be torn off or my vehicle
> >> impounded
> >> and suddenly I am a drunk red neck shooting kids with bean bags and
> >> leaving
> >> garbage everywhere spoiling national parks. yeah right.
> >>
> >> The truth is, when I went to the website and looked at the
> stats on
> >> bears
> >> and incidents, the numbers are up!. The bears are getting
> smarter. They
> >> are
> >> smart enough to know who has the shot gun with the thumper
> rounds and
> >> its
> >> not the dumb helpless campers, and the bears know that. You
> should see
> >> them
> >> run like hell when they see the rangers in Yellowstone.  They
> know who
> >> has
> >> the stuff.
> >>
> >> Yeah, REI has bear spray, let us use thumpers or pepper balls
> in paint
> >> guns,
> >> teach the bears to stay away from all humans and anything to do
> with>> humans,
> >> give them a bad bad (non lethal) experience, let it rain on
> them in
> >> campgrounds, remember its not a poodle, they need a big SWAT to
> get the
> >> message, Ask the folks who live around them they know.  If the park
> >> service
> >> could get the incidents down to zero they would, the problem is
> most>> "people" and the "general public" has been so "dumbed down"
> nowadays its
> >> lucky they can still drive a car and tie their shoes. The only
> folks who
> >> know how to take responsibility, fix anything, use a power
> tool, kill a
> >> meal, stand up to hostile bikers,   ............yup its mostly
> the red
> >> necks.  (sorry)
> >>
> >> Yes guns in cockpits, yes empower the people, some of us are
> still  not
> >> helpless. we can carry anti freeze and propane safely,
> >>
> >>  Kill your own meat once in a while instead of having somebody
> else do
> >> it
> >> for you. You will gain a new perspective of life and death.
> >>
> >> Let those who want somebody else to do everything for them stay
> at home.
> >>
> >> Hey its just one mans opinion, cant take the heat stay out of the
> >> kitchen.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >> 87 syncro westy conversion
> >> 89 blue star wolfy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Robert Fisher" <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 6:40 PM
> >> Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Now there's a great idea- let's all go into the Nat'l parks and
> >> declare
> >> war
> >> > on the bears for obeying their instincts and being bears.
> >> > We'll all enjoy our trips into the hinterlands so much better
> when we
> >> can
> >> be
> >> > the same kinds of slobs out in the woods that we are at home,
> with our
> >> open
> >> > cans of beer and bags of chips laying about, smears of grease and
> >> crumbs
> >> on
> >> > our clothes, safe from the natural inhabitants because every
> single>> bear
> >> in
> >> > the woods has had a thoroughly effective pavlovian experience
> at the
> >> hand
> >> of
> >> > the hordes of rednecks that were imported to whip them into
> shape,>> just
> >> for
> >> > the sport of it.
> >> > 'Course the experience won't be as, well, natural as it once
> was, what
> >> with
> >> > all the trailers and garbage dumps scattered thru the parks from
> >> where the
> >> > rednecks won't want to leave 'the beauty of nature' after
> they've done
> >> such
> >> > a good job of whipping it into shape... but that's ok,
> they'll do a
> >> > wonderful job of driving out those evil Gestapo Park Rangers
> while>> their
> >> at
> >> > it- how dare they try to preserve a more-or-less natural
> habitat at
> >> the
> >> > expense of our convenience?
> >> > Just too bad you won't be able to take your kids into the
> woods for
> >> fear
> >> > they'll be mistaken for a bear cub by a drunken redneck and
> have their
> >> > little heads knocked off by all the bean bags and 'thumper'
> rounds>> flying
> >> > around- but hey, that's part of the price you pay, gotta
> teach them
> >> bears
> >> > young, y'know.
> >> >
> >> > Yup, no doubt about it, being 'nice and considerate', i.e.
> >> preparation,
> >> > cleanliness and education are for the pantywaists- much
> better to
> >> just do
> >> > what we 'feel' and teach them damn bears a lesson.
> >> >
> >> > Y'know, if you really feel that way, why don't you do your
> camping in
> >> a
> >> > trailer park or a downtown street and leave the parks and
> forests for
> >> the
> >> > rest of us pantywaists.
> >> >
> >> > Unbelievable.
> >> >
> >> > Robert
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Doug in Calif" <vanagon@ASTOUND.NET>
> >> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 5:51 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > I find this thread pretty interesting, I did go to the some
> of the
> >> links
> >> > > provided and its amazing to see now that you can have your
> "vehicle>> > > impounded" for committing "such a crime".  The bear
> lockers sound
> >> like
> >> > good
> >> > > ideas but the problem some have already stated with them is
> that>> they
> >> are
> >> > > not big enough, not enough of them, they are not refrigerated,
> >> (what am
> >> I
> >> > > supposed to do with the stuff in my propane fridge with no
> ice?)>> Now I
> >> > have
> >> > > to bring an ice chest and ice too?  You better not forget
> the air
> >> > freshener
> >> > > hangin from your mirror. "oops just lost your rig and its
> impound>> time".
> >> > > This is BS in my opinion. What about the stove in your rig?
> They
> >> say
> >> your
> >> > > child seat should be removed because it has "residual food"
> on it.
> >> what
> >> > > about the stove. how about the fabric in the tent from my
> last egg
> >> > breakfast
> >> > > in the westy?
> >> > >
> >> > > I feel there should be more aggressive measures taken to
> make this a
> >> very
> >> > > bad experience for the bears. Let the campers shoot them
> with bean
> >> bags
> >> > and
> >> > > their own 12ga and pepper spray them big time. We need some
> good>> ole red
> >> > > neck hunters that enjoy giving them bears a shot in the
> rump, just
> >> for
> >> the
> >> > > sport of it. As usual, our pantywaist society has made
> another bad
> >> > situation
> >> > > worse by "being nice and considerate".
> >> > >
> >> > > I did not see anything on the sites about taking your own
> >> initiative and
> >> > > using bear spray or a "thumper" round which I carry in my
> 12 ga.
> >> > >
> >> > > Doug
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Mark Tuovinen" <mst@AK.NET>
> >> > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 3:10 PM
> >> > > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > Addendum re: "Best plan, assuming there are trees around
> (not too
> >> many
> >> > > bears on the
> >> > > >              desert) is to throw a rope over a limb and
> haul your
> >> food
> >> > bag
> >> > > up into
> >> > > >              the air out of reach. This is common
> practice in back
> >> > country
> >> > > camping."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Whether or not there are trees around there should be a
> minimum of
> >> > several
> >> > > hundred feet between your campsite and where you cook
> and/or store
> >> food,
> >> > > toiletries, etc.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >              " If you are going to keep food in a tent
> you are
> >> sleeping
> >> > > in, keep a
> >> > > >                good sharp knife at your side so you can
> cut an
> >> exit
> >> door
> >> > > in the tent
> >> > > >                wall opposite the entrance door  the bears
> claws>> have
> >> > cut."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > If you choose to keep food, toiletries, etc, in you tent then
> >> this is
> >> > good
> >> > > advice. Or you can just wait and the bear will be more then
> happy to
> >> make
> >> > a
> >> > > second opening for you. We plan ahead and already have a
> tent with
> >> two
> >> > door
> >> > > openings.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Mark in AK
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > > From: don spence <dspence@OANET.COM>
> >> > > > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:48 pm
> >> > > > Subject: Re: bears burgling for food?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > If you are going to keep food in a tent you are
> sleeping in,
> >> keep a
> >> > > > > good sharp knife at your side so you can cut an exit
> door in the
> >> tent
> >> > > > > wall opposite the entrance door  the bears claws have cut.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Best plan, assuming there are trees around (not too
> many bears
> >> on
> >> the
> >> > > > > desert) is to throw a rope over a limb and haul your
> food bag up
> >> into
> >> > > > > the air out of reach. This is common practice in back
> country>> camping.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Up on the roof is better than in a westy. Food and
> people space
> >> don't
> >> > > > > mix in bear country.
> >> > > > >
>
>
>
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