Mike,

I don't know if all Vanagon Westy with shivel seats are the same though
I will be surprised if they aren't. Looks like Sean has a 90 Vanagon.

- Vince

http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
1989 Vanagon GL Camper
1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
1996 Land Rover Discovery
2005 Mini Cooper S

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of Michael Elliott
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 1:28 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?

What?!? Because I have shriveled seats I have to hack and chop the
yellowtop Optima that I just ordered??? Rats. I thought the thing would
fit on its side.

I was /wondering/ why the pictures on Sean's site
(http://www.vgonman.com/auxbat.htm) showed so much room under the
seats!!

Grumble, grumble.

Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
71 VW Type 2 / 84 Westy: A poor but proud race.
KG6RCR

Vince S wrote:

>Bill,
>
>I assume your 87 Westy has shrivel seats. Given that the only car size
>battery that will fit in the aux battery compartment is the Group 41
>battery just like the one under the passenger seat. This battery is the

>easiest to install it fits like a pair of glove. I used this for years.

>You can order the battery hold down bar from VW or find one from a
>wrecked Vanagon.
>
>The drawback of the group 41 battery is it is a starting battery and
>down work well if you draw the battery down very low. On the flip side
>is you can get them so cheap so that may not matter.
>
>Many folks including myself installed the Optima yellow top (deep
>cycle) or red top (good starting battery) but it requires some
>modification to the battery which can be a lot of work. Vanagon without

>the Shrivel seats can fit the Optima on it's side which requires
>securing the battery so the positive terminal does not short out to the

>chassis. Either of the Optima battery performs significantly better
>than the group 41 due to the spiral wound glass fabric construction.
>
>I have a page on my site about the modification I have to perform.
>
>
>
>- Vince
>
>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
>1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
>1996 Land Rover Discovery
>2005 Mini Cooper S
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf

>Of William Alexander
>Sent: Monday, September 06, 2004 7:35 AM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>
>
>Forgive me if I'm asking about a common knowledge question - but is
>there a preferred battery to buy for the aux battery space under the
>seat - I keep hearing mention that normal batteries won't fit there? I
>definitely plan on adding one to mine but am not sure which battery to
>purchase.
>
>A second similar question on a different subject:
>
>Is there a popular heater of some sort that folks use to generate heat
>inside the van on cold nights? some small kerosene heater or something
>like that?
>
>Thanks for the help
>
>William Alexander
>Roanoke, VA
>1987 Westy - searching for a name
>
>
>
>On Sep 6, 2004, at 10:06 AM, Vince S wrote:
>
>
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>Just returned back from a back to back trips, first into the Gorge
>>then to Southern Oregon. When I was in the Eastern Gorge amoung 25 or
>>so vehicles in the state park there were 8 Vanagon Westfalia. At
>>Pistol River sailing spot there were 3 among 12 vehicles! The weather
>>is cooler now making very comfortable camping in the Westy. Even got
>>to use the furnace in the cool morning a bit.
>>
>>For a few years I had only the primary battery. Those were the years I
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>didn't have all the modern electronics as I do now. With one battery
>>you really have to be sure it is in good condition and secondly use it
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>very sparingly and leave a lot of safety margin.
>>
>>Having an aux battery as the house battery makes life very comfortable
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>as you can drain the battery all you want and not having to worry not
>>able to turn the engine over.
>>
>>Even with an Optima as the aux battery I found that you still have to
>>be very conciencious on the usage with entended camping. My highest
>>consumption is using the sound system at high volume. I try to only
>>
>>
>use
>
>
>>the inverter when I am driving and the usual use of the inverter is to

>>charge up all the electronic gadgets. I like to charge a number of
>>
>>
>them
>
>
>>at the same time as the inverter has an overhead. I am still not
>>conviced that an compressor based fridge is the way to go without
>>installing a fairly large deep cycle if you also want to use all the
>>other modern electronics.
>>
>>When I first bought my 350W Honda generator I didn't use it much. Now
>>I always bring it with me though I only use it on occasions to
>>recharge when the aux battery runs very low.
>>
>>For the notebook computer I have a Sony Vaio which I have two
>>supersize battery. One fully charged battery can last the entire DVD
>>plus more. If you play your DVD from the harddrive it also will extend
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the battery life.
>>
>>On the aux battery wiring, I really like the Westy method of the
>>relay. It is very simple and effective. I am not sure how easily it
>>can be done to your 71 bus.
>>
>>
>>- Vince
>>
>>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
>>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
>>1993 Mazda Miata (for sale)
>>1996 Land Rover Discovery
>>2005 Mini Cooper S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rocket J Squirrel [mailto:j.michael.elliott@adelphia.net]
>>Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 7:08 AM
>>To: Vince S
>>Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>Subject: Re: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>>
>>
>>Hi Vince,
>>
>>Just got back. Had a lovely trip up the coast to Paradise campground,
>>E of Eugene OR. Damp and overcast but green and very pretty.
>>
>>Also had the battery discharge to the point where it would not turn
>>the starter. This after two days of not running the engine. I was
>>surprised that it faded that quickly. Usage was, I thought, light over
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>the two
>>days: ambient interior lighting was provided mainly by kerosene,
>>reading
>>
>>lighting by LED headlamps, and the only other current drains were the
>>laptop, used to play one movie using a 250-watt inverter, and the
>>stereo, not played loudly at all. The subwoofer amp was often switched
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>off. I guess I misjudged how much load we were placing on the battery.
>>
>>I have noted that the green battery indicator LED only lights when the
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>car is being driven and for about 15 minutes after being switched off.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Then we go to to Condition Yellow.
>>
>>Lead-acid batteries are complex animals.
>>
>>What happened was this: on the second night, halfway through "The
>>Manchurian Candidate," DVD (the original, black and white, with Frank
>>Sinatra, Angie Dickenson -- a surprisingly well-done movie, $9.99 at
>>Wally World) the "fault" beeper on the inverter started chirping. Then
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>I
>>
>>noticed that the two lamps that illuminate the automatic
>>transmission's "PRND21" legend were lit. For some reason the dash
>>lights were not working on this trip, a wiring issue I'll need to
>>troubleshoot as soon as the Vanagon is back. Someone had turned the
>>key from "off" to "on." Could have been me -- the stereo is wired to
>>the seatbelt buzzer circuit
>>
>>so it gets power when the key is inserted. I may have boneheadedly
>>turned on the key when I turned on the stereo to listen to the movie
>>(via FM radio -- a separate post). The front curtain prevented me from
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>seeing the dash indicator LEDs.
>>
>>"What the . . . ?" I quickly reasoned that the inverter was
>>complaining of low input voltage. I checked the battery monitor panel:
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Condition Red. And more that Condition Red -- it was "faded, barely
>>glimmering red." Darn. Tried the starter. One grunt then nuttin'.
>>
>>I reckoned that I could get a jump-start from another camper in the
>>morning, yet fretted about it all night long.
>>
>>In the morning, the battery had recovered sufficiently to start the
>>engine. Surface charge? I dunno -- as I said, lead-acid batteries are
>>complex animals and I don't understand them very well. I'm not even
>>sure
>>
>>what happened -- was the battery slowly being discharged due to our
>>stereo/laptop and minimal lighting usage, or had it been
>>heavily-loaded during that first hour of "The Manchurian Candidate"
>>when the key was on? A puzzle to me.
>>
>>But a better system of monitoring battery condition would be useful.
>>
>>So would installing that Aux battery with a hefty relay. And/or
>>packing one of those backup starter batteries. Belt /and/ suspenders.
>>
>>Other than this little battery issue, the camping trip was a genuine
>>pleasure. My lovely wife and I found our little Westy to be a darn
>>near perfect camping vehicle for us.
>>--
>>
>>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>71 VW Type 2 / 84 Westy: A poor but proud race.
>>KG6RCR
>>
>>
>>Vince S wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>You are correct the three LEDs are not exactly precision indicator of
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>the battery condition. However please bare in mind even with an
>>>accurate voltmeter monitoring the battery still requires some common
>>>sense and your knowledge of your own battery.
>>>
>>>A sultfated battery can display the same voltage level (when lightly
>>>loaded) as a healthy battery but it may not be able to provide the
>>>current to turn the engine over.
>>>
>>>For rough indication you should cut back on draining the battery if
>>>it reach amber. Definite start the engine to recharge the battery if
>>>the red light up. Please note that the alternator charges at very low
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>rate when the engine is idling. It will only provide decent charging
>>>current
>>>
>>>
>>>at above 2500 RPM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>- Vince
>>>
>>>http://gipsyflies.home.comcast.net
>>>1989 Vanagon GL Camper
>>>1993 Mazda Miata
>>>1996 Land Rover Discovery
>>>2005 Mini Cooper S (almost here)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>Behalf
>>>
>>>
>>>Of Rocky Squirrel
>>>Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:33 AM
>>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>Subject: Battery LEDs = Useful life?
>>>
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>Use http://www.onspeed.com/?A=web2mail to transform dial up
>>>connections
>>>
>>>
>>>to near broadband speed. Reccomended by Web2Mail
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>I hope this message gets through -- we're presently at the Red Lion
>>>Hotel in Spokane for my niece's wedding. Later today my lovely wife
>>>and
>>>
>>>
>>>I will fly to Oakland, CA, meet up with our new-to-us 84 Westy and
>>>begin a weeklong trip up the northern California coastline. It will
>>>be a longer camping trip than we've ever taken with our Westy. It has
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>a single main battery and an automatic transmission, so I know that
>>>if the battery goes too low, starting the engine might require a jump
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>from
>>>
>>>
>>>someone. The engine generally starts easily, not a lot of cranking
>>>required. To avoid needing a helping hand I will keep an eye on the
>>>battery LEDs. But three lamps are hardly a precision indicating
>>>system.
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there a rule of thumb about how to interpret the LEDs vs enough
>>>juice to start? I also have a digital voltmeter -- how low does the
>>>battery voltage go when we're looking at Danger Will Robinson?
>>>
>>>--
>>>Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>