Don:
This is 7200 feet, the combination of thin air, cold winters, a worn engine
and a thick head gasket really makes a warm engine necessary. Curious to see
how the biodiesel fires a cold engine this winter.
Just being able to start it isn't good enough, I want it warm. So I have 3
of the immersion heaters installed for a total of 1200 watts of heat. It's a
great system. I believe the external circulating heater powers 1200 watts
but the 3 internal heaters work very fast, the head is warming in a few
minutes and the heat is extremely reliable. I'm not concerned with the oil
heating issue. The only real weakness with immersion heaters is grounding,
it's a disaster when the GFCI won't let you run a heater.

I do carry a can of sterno for emergency, in case there is no electricity,
but it's useless in windy weather. If there were a propane fired heater I'd
probably install one just for overkill. If I had the drip pan that wouldn't
be possible. I sleep on top of my engine so excess overnight heat isn't
totally wasted. 2 relays control the 3 heaters so I can choose 400, 800 or
1200 watts of heat. Wish I could control them from my computer. Hmmm...

Fun chatting with you and looking at a snowy winter.

-- Gnarlie

Entity don spence spoke thus:

> Gnarlie
> I don't know where you live but up here in the Great White North engine
> heaters were de rigeur prior to global warming.  The improvements in
> engine management technology (FI) and the warmer winters have meant I
> haven't plugged in for over 10 years. Except for the Vanagon, which is
> not often used in the winter.   We just don't get those prolonged
> periods of -40 (C or F, take your pick as they are the same at that
> temp)
> Grampa used to say... "The best thing going for starting in winter is
> park it on the manure pile and throw a blanket over the engine". Worked
> on grampa's Model T.
>
> My vanagon has an under pan heater which works well.  The advantage
> here is it warms the oil, thinning it and allowing lubrication as well
> as removing resistance and stress on the oil pump. Allows a useful
> cranking speed, instant oil flow to the bearings etc. The heat will
> migrate to the upper engine as well. Usually takes 2 hours. Set a timer
> if you need it in the morning.
> I used a dipstick oil heater on a 68 beetle many years ago. It started
> but a beetle without a working gas heater was no match for a prairie
> winter.
>
> Engine block heaters are a bitch to install in a cramped engine
> compartment as the go in a frost plug hole which is usually tucked
> under a manifold etc.  They will heat the coolant that comes in contact
> with the element and again the heat will migrate to the rest of the
> engine over time. They can be left plugged in indefinitely. Only caveat
> is the cost of electricity.
>
> The best system and easiest to install is a circulating  in line heater
> that you insert into a rad hose. These little units heat the coolant
> and thermo pump it around the block there by warming the entire engine
> block. Unfortunately neither the immersion nor the circulating heaters
> have a direct impact on the oil in the sump.
>
> Of course you can park it in a heated garage there by inviting early
> rust outs... but that's another discussion.
> Cheers
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 29, 2004, at 10:00 PM, Automatic digest
> processor wrote:
>
>> Date:    Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:28:40 -0600
>> From:    Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@EARTHLINK.NET>
>> Subject: Re: Oil Pan Heater (immersion vs. stickon)
>>
>> Several claims here are a little hard to believe, I'll respond to them
>> itemwise.
>>
>>> Our oil pan heaters are thin, flexible heating pads that are
>>> permanently
>>> bonded to the oil pan.
>>> The heater has the special adhesive already on it, by simply peeling
>>> of the
>>> protective backing and
>>> pressing the  heater firmly in place on a clean, flat surface, the
>>> heater is
>>> ready to be used.
>> My experience is that oil combined with heat wreaks havoc on the
>> stickum.
>> Once the glue separates from direct contact heat transfer is
>> drastically
>> slowed. And if a sharp object tears your heatpad it's dangerous when
>> wet.
>>
>> They do work well when stuck to a battery though.
>>
>>> No special tools or skills are required. Everything for a complete
>>> installation is included with each heater.
>> I admit, installing the immersion heater is a bitch. This would work
>> for
>> stopgap.
>>
>>> An Oil Pan Heater is far superior to a block heater and more
>>> efficient.
>> Not true at all. The pad I used was only 50 watts and in cold weather
>> (0degF) could do no more than heat the oil a little. The only
>> advantage to
>> the pad is you could leave it on all night, which you can't really do
>> with
>> an immersion heater. But maybe they expect you to leave it on all the
>> time.
>>
>>> A block heater only "warms" a part of the engine.
>> But the important part, the liquid. And fast, at 400 watts. You can
>> hear the
>> heater popping and crackling in there so you know it's working. The
>> warm
>> liquid rises up to the combustion chamber where it does the most good.
>> Plus, your heater works a lot sooner.
>>
>>> An Oil Pan Heater "heats" the complete engine starting at the bottom.
>> But this process takes hours, and only under ideal conditions. For
>> example,
>> if it's windy you lose the heat as fast as it's generated because it's
>> trying to move outside in.
>>
>>> The hot oil heats the crankshaft,
>>>  which in turn heats the connecting rods, pistons and cylinder
>>> heads. Remember "heat" rises.
>> When you need to start you engine in 20 minutes you don't need a warm
>> crankshaft, you need a warm combustion chamber.
>>
>>> We recommend the model 9.0 for your VW Vanagon.
>> OK, I see 125 watts in a 3 inch diameter stickon. I still say the
>> immersion
>> heater is vastly superior but the stickon heater would be good for
>> certain
>> applications, such as big trucks with high ground clearance.
>>
>>> The price of the model 9.0 is $59.00.00 Cdn. Dlrs Shipping charges are
>>> included in price.
>> Woah, expensive too! what's that in $US?
>>
>>> Web site http://www.padheaters.com/