Yep, I agree with you, Eric. Diplomatic.

I liked Jeff's final qualifying remark..... "JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION..... "

I do happen to like the gnomic expression "IMHO" a bit better. Mainly
because it is is short - and hopefully any "Net" person will understand
it's meaning.

IMHO - In my Humble Opinion

Regards,

John Rodgers
88 GL Driver

Eric Zeno wrote:

> Very diplomatic reply  there Jeff, and I could not agree more.
>
> Here is the real killing:  (He states)
> "You have NO idea how much better the vehicle is to drive now"
>
>        I guess he has a spy camera and has been watching me work
> on cars for the last 30 year.......LOL
>                                         Eric
>
>
> Jeffrey Schwaia wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> First of all, you shouldn't have let yourself be sucked in to a post
>> that's
>> obviously intended to start a flame war.
>>
>> Secondly, I wish people would put in their posts comments like: "in my
>> experience", or "in my opinion".
>>
>> In "your experience" the Subaru is great and the WBX'er is crap, "in my
>> experience", the WBX'er has never failed me and never failed CA smog,
>> and
>> that's over the course of 18 years and 6 different Vanagons.
>>
>> I guess what I'm trying to say is that experiences and opinions are
>> quite
>> personal and whenever someone makes statements of fact that are actually
>> opinions it almost always starts a flame war.
>>
>> JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION.....
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
>> Of Steve
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 3:28 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: engineering nightmares vehicles was: cruise control
>> speedometer sensor
>>
>>
>> At 08:18 AM 10/26/2004, Eric Zeno wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm suprized at the trouble you subaru people will go
>>> thru, (like making these circuits), to fit a cross bread
>>> engine.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> What trouble? In one year, the average VW engine user
>> will spend more time fiddling around with distributor parts
>> than I spent designing and building that VSS circuit.
>>
>> I seem to have a lot of extra time to sit around and
>> design fun stuff like that now that I'm not spending all
>> my time trying to keep a VW motor running decently
>> and get it past the CA smog man....
>> I've got 18 months and 13K+ miles on my conversion
>> and the only thing I've had to do besides change an O2
>> sensor is change oil and filter.
>> I don't even have to add oil between changes.
>> I've almost forgotten what it's like to have grease under
>> my fingernails all the time.
>> Yessir, got a helluva lot of spare time now that I no
>> longer have a VW motor to work on.
>>
>>
>>
>>> IF a Subaru is so good just go buy one.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If Subaru made a vehicle with a stove, a fridge, a poptop,
>> that can haul 12' lumber and is as fun to drive as the
>> Vanagon, I'd be all over it. But to my knowledge they don't.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> There are no issues like this with an inline vw
>>> engines to solve.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Uhhh... yeah. No issues like THAT...plenty of other issues though.
>> I've seen the problems and complaints the I-4 installers have.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Good engineering does things as
>>> simple as possible.  VW kept things simple.  You
>>> need to keep it that way.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Tell it to all the new VW's that have a speed sensor.
>> It's an OBD2 requirement and pretty much every new car
>> has got one. Including VW's.
>> If you want to convert a vanagon with a late model OBD2
>> VW engine you're going to need a speed sensor.
>>
>> And no Eric, simpler is not always better. If the end result is
>> the same, then simpler is better. But if added complexity gives
>> clearly superior results, then simple loses.
>>
>>
>>
>>> PS  There is only 2 type's of people: VW type engineering
>>> people, and then there are engineering nightmares.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The WBX *IS* an engineering nightmare. The cooling system
>> alone is probably one of the worst automotive designs on the
>> planet.If the WBX is "VW type engineering" then you can have
>> it and I hope I never see it again.
>>
>> I spent more time screwing around with the WBX trying to get
>> it to be a real motor than I spent doing the Subaru conversion.
>> And now, for my trouble, I have a REAL motor, with REAL
>> performance, and REAL reliability, instead of the silly
>> pretend motor that the marvelous VW engineering people
>> tried to stick me with. You have NO idea how much better
>> the vehicle is to drive now.
>> It turns a very good vehicle into an EXCELLENT vehicle.
>>
>> Keep your I-4's. I have nothing against folks who put one in their
>> van. Put a Harley Davidson motor in for all I care. I'd even help
>> do it if they're friendly and buy me a beer.
>>
>> If you've got such a big problem with subaru conversions, I
>> suggest you set your filters to toss everything with the word
>> "subaru" or "subie" directly into the trash. It'll keep you
>> from displaying your ignorance to the list quite as often.
>>
>> Steve
>> '86 Westy "Escape Pod"  (EJ22)
>> '73 Beetle "ain't got a name yet"
>> ++++++++++
>> Universal Hall effect VSS fits '86 and later speedo. Works with 2WD or
>> Syncro.
>> http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weird/stuff/automotive/vanagon/vss.html
>> Need a cure for the Subie-Westy "alternator light problem"?
>> http://www.weirdstuffwemake.com/weird/stuff/automotive/vanagon/alt_fix.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>