Stan:
You need to chill out and start driving like a grown up.Either that or
maybe it's the heat of the air cooled plus Texas!
I've had 4 wbxers, 1 air cooled, longest for 14 years. total of 2 broken
mounts out of 20 possible positions. Both on the air cooled.  Not that I
have been that easy on them.
Al Brase

Stan Wilder wrote:

>I replaced about 12 rear motor mounts on my 82 Westy in ten years of
>ownership.
>Some came from list vendors and some came from local VW Parts store.
>Spinning the rear wheels in wet weather or on icy streets is about  the best
>way to tear them out.
>
>Stan Wilder
>Engine Ceramics
>214-352-4931
>www.engineceramics.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Robert Fisher" <refisher@MCHSI.COM>
>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:36 PM
>Subject: Re: Jackin' Up The Van
>
>
>
>
>>When I bought my van it had three broken motor mounts. Oddly enough, it
>>didn't seem to be affecting it much, but when I bought the full set to
>>replace them, the guy that owns the import repair/parts place I use told
>>
>>
>me
>
>
>>that just about every Vgon he'd worked on had at least two broken mounts
>>(the driver's side, IIRC). This guy is a VW specialist and owner from way
>>back. It was his theory that the mounts were typically under-designed and
>>that the torque of the flat four was too much for them over time. I've
>>
>>
>kept
>
>
>>an eye out for some sign of this since I've been on the list and haven't
>>seen much mention of it. For that matter, they're pretty well buried down
>>there and if broken mounts don't have any more effect in general than they
>>did on mine, that might explain it. My point is, anyway, that if this is
>>
>>
>as
>
>
>>common as my guy thinks it is, it would make it just that much more
>>dangerous to lift the van by the engine, risking a sudden collapse.
>>
>>As for myself, I wouldn't lift any vehicle by any mounts, or anything else
>>that wasn't part of the frame or so well attached to it as to make no
>>difference. My exception to this, I guess would be jacking from under the
>>wheel arms, which are of course designed to support at least part of the
>>weight of the vehicle.
>>
>>I have to jack the van up pretty high to make room for myself under there,
>>and I've always used the engine crossbar when I wanted to lift the entire
>>rear. I've done this more times than I ever wanted to and it hasn't
>>distorted the bar at all. I just take it slow and easy when I lift it. I
>>
>>
>use
>
>
>>a bottle jack (sometimes with wood pieces) to move or support the engine
>>
>>
>or
>
>
>>tranny as needed once I have the jack stands in.
>>
>>If I'm feeling especially paranoid on taking a trip, I take a floor jack
>>
>>
>(I
>
>
>>have a large one and a small one) and two jacks stands, again mostly
>>
>>
>because
>
>
>>I have to get plenty of clearance to get under a vehicle safely. Never
>>really had too much of a space issue, as I try to travel light (my wife's
>>efforts at 'packing' notwithstanding). Under more 'normal' (mental)
>>circumstances, I just take the bottle jack in its case. Worked for me so
>>far...
>>
>>Cya,
>>Robert
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Greg Potts" <Greg@POTTSFAMILY.CA>
>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:37 PM
>>Subject: Re: Jackin' Up The Van
>>
>>
>>Hi Al,
>>
>>4 of those rubber mounts would *probably* be plenty strong enough to
>>raise a vanagon. I know I have seen a bay raised without tearing them,
>>but only when they were fresh. I've seen stale mounts tear firsthand...
>>having a ton of bus shift on the jack is very dangerous.
>>
>>Happy trails,
>>
>>Greg Potts
>>Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>>
>>1973/74/79 Westfakia Conversion **Bob the Tomato**  LY3H
>>1977 Sunroof Automatic L63H/L90D
>>http://www.pottsfamily.ca/westfakia
>>http://www.busesofthecorn.com
>>
>>
>>On 29-Dec-04, at 1:49 PM, Al and Sue Brase wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Actually, there are 4 rubber mounts there and each bigger than the old
>>>type 4 mounts. Waterboxers use the same parts.
>>>You guys are right, but that's the way I always do it. WAY easier. I
>>>just put a 2x4 on top of the jack and lift in the middle of the engine.
>>>Right where the strainer would be if it were a Type 1 engine.
>>>If they break, it is time to fix them. I've never had one break. BUT,
>>>I'd never forget that it could happen, resulting in sudden unintended
>>>downward acceleration of the vehicle. That's what jack stands are for. I
>>>put the jackstands on the outriggers ahead of the rear wheels, then I
>>>lower the  jack slowly to put MOST of the weight on the jackstands.
>>>I then take a hammer and whack each stand to make sure all 4 legs are on
>>>the ground. Then I let the rest of the weght off the jack, but leave it
>>>right there. I then push as hard as I can on each corner. If it falls
>>>now, the jack will catch it. And I don't want any surprises while I'm
>>>underneath. (It seems like nearly every year, I hear on the local news
>>>of some amatuer mechanic crushed to death under his car- I don't love my
>>>Vanagons THAT much!)
>>>Al
>>>
>>>Greg Potts wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Hi Craig,
>>>>
>>>>I can't speak directly for the waterboxer (The seller now has the
>>>>title, and we should have it here in Toronto in 7-10 days) but I can
>>>>say that the 68-83.5 aircooled buses should NEVER be lifted by the
>>>>engine.
>>>>
>>>>In an aircooled bus or Vanagon the engine is connected to the yoke by
>>>>two rubber motor mounts that will tear if they're asked to support the
>>>>weight of the vehicle.
>>>>
>>>>I usually lift by the engine yoke, or by putting the jack under a
>>>>frame member. NOT from the engine.
>>>>
>>>>Happy trails,
>>>>
>>>>Greg Potts
>>>>Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>>>>
>>>>1973/74/79 Westfakia Conversion **Bob the Tomato**  LY3H
>>>>1977 Sunroof Automatic L63H/L90D
>>>>http://www.pottsfamily.ca/westfakia
>>>>http://www.busesofthecorn.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 29-Dec-04, at 12:07 PM, Craig Oda wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Isn't is possible to jack the van up by putting the jack plate under
>>>>>the engine block.  I think this is what the "101 projects for your
>>>>>porsche" book recommends.  It says to put a piece of wood or something
>>>>>under the engine block to avoid scratching it.  Any thoughts on why
>>>>>this wouldn't work on a vanagon?
>>>>>
>>>>>-- Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:16:32 -0600, Stan Wilder
>>>>><wilden1-1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've lifted mine many times from the steel engine yoke that the rear
>>>>>>motor
>>>>>>mounts screw to.
>>>>>>I've never bent one doing it this way but you could also lift from
>>>>>>the point
>>>>>>that the tranny mounts to the front crossbar. I've done this too but
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>it
>
>
>>>>>>seems to be about a balancing point and not as stable as the rear
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>lift
>
>
>>>>>>scenario.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Stan Wilder
>>>>>>Engine Ceramics
>>>>>>214-352-4931
>>>>>>www.engineceramics.com
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Dave Chameides" <docproteus@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>>>>To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:56 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Jackin' Up The Van
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If I have a floor jack and want to raise the van from the center rear
>>>>>>without doing one side and then the other (I don�t want it to tip
>>>>>>side to
>>>>>>side right now) is there a center point that is strong enough to be
>>>>>>a jack
>>>>>>point (keeping in mind that as soon as I get the butt up in the air,
>>>>>>I�ll be
>>>>>>jack standing the leafs and letting it rest back down on them).
>>>>>>Will the
>>>>>>transmission hold the weight?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.6 - Release Date: 12/28/2004
>
>
>