This is true but even before they rip off the design they change the
name and that's the point I was making. It's not an adventurewagen (one
word) it's just a high top.

JFF
On Feb 7, 2005, at 1:07 PM, Max Wellhouse wrote:

Not familiar with the previous goings on about rights to use Adventure
wagen name and all, but if the mold is changed 10%, there's not much the
person owning the "rights" to the AW design can do in court.  This
happens
to kayak designers all the time.

Max

At 10:20 AM 2/7/2005, Joe Federici wrote:
> I would agree. . . I've had the option of having these molds for quite
> some time and so have the members of the aw list on yahoo. Really it's
> quite funny to me that Ed had been trying to sell them for next to
> nothing for over a year. I posted about this I think twice to this and
> most of the lists. At that time you could have worked out a deal for
> the adventurewagen name with them. Now is desperation he gives them
> away without any  rights to the name and everyone has interest. I just
> think for the amount of money and time whoever is going to put into
> these molds 500.00 to pay him would have be nothing. Either way all I'm
> looking for is the name and contact information for whoever Steve or
> the body shop turns them over to. I  don't see the point in debating it
> on the list and wasting everyones time. That's not the point of this
> list.
>
> I will as a friend of Ed's also be keeping an eye open to make sure the
> new high tops will not be using the adventurewagen name as they are
> not. This is no different then putting a westy top on a vanagon.
>
> JFF
>
> On Feb 7, 2005, at 4:03 AM, Robert Fisher wrote:
>
> Just up front and off the top of my head, I'm not sure the 'group's
> approval' has any bearing here, just yet. That is, the molds belong to
> somebody: They still belong to Ed, or he conveyed ownership to Steve,
> or
> someone else. It seems that Ed doesn't care and has probably bestowed
> ownership on Steve, but I'm just speculating from earlier posts. Steve
> doesn't want ownership, there's another Steven that does, there was
> another
> guy that already has a glass shop, and now there's you.
>
> I'm not sure any 'group consensus' has any meaning or bearing unless
> Steve
> or whoever has ownership wants to play it that way- like most things
> it'll
> probably come down to a personal deal being struck. Obviously there's
> no
> point in saving them if they're not going to be put in production,
> which you
> say you want to do and are capable of doing. You've obviously done some
> homework and seem to have the desire, but that's a long way from being
> able
> to perform, as I'm sure you know.
>
> So, some additional thoughts/questions in general:
>
> Is the future owner going to actually have the time and inclination to
> support and operate what is essentially a one-off, on-demand business
> with a
> low profit margin? This is probably the only real marketplace for these
> tops. (?)
> You wrote about possibly getting a local glass shop to do the actual
> fabricating- is somebody really going to want to keep these things
> around
> and interrupt their normal business ops to make maybe 2-5 in a good
> year?
> Quality control? There's some artistry involved in this- how do you
> know
> when you're 'good'?
> What can be done and what should be done about the window problem?
> How to handle shipping? Installation?
> What about the particulars such as headliners and the A/C ducting? How
> are
> these things obtained/reproduced?
> What were the accessories required to install one of these tops and how
> are
> they obtained/reproduced?
> Legalities- warranties, DOT requirements, etc.
>
> I'd like to see these things 'available', if nothing else, preferably
> from
> somebody that's a Vanagon enthusiast who will deal with the market (us)
> in
> good faith and with good service, as Jonathon says. Aside from that, I
> couldn't say I have a preference if for no other reason than that I
> don't
> personally know a single one of you- except that it'd probably be a lot
> cheaper for me if they stayed in California, assuming I can ever afford
> one.
> : )
>
> Just some thoughts to add to the conversation; here's hoping they find
> a
> good home.
>
> Cya,
> Robert