> Right on!!  But remember, when you make ethanol from corn oil, or diesel
> from soy, that it uses a rough equivalency of fossil fuel to plant, grow

In my college classes last year we did the calculations on this, and
you're propagating a myth.  There is (obviously) an energy input to
produce the crop, but the energy balance is positive, and not just by
a small percentage but by a decent multiple.  I'll dig out the figures
and references later, but please hold off repeating the oil companies'
anti-environmental propaganda until then :-)

Biofuels ARE an effective solution and make up one of the "wedges"
needed in kicking the fossil fuel habit (there are about ten others
-- solar, wind, etc.)

Iirc ADM are actually doing some good stuff (for all they are not nice)
in the biofuel line, getting multiple uses from the biomass: alcohol plus
using the CO2, plus other things (in my notes, not my forgettory)

(Sorry this discussion is OT for Vanagon, but it's useful)

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Williams" <williams@FIRE.BIOL.WWU.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 9:28 AM
Subject: oil and gas

> Right on!!  But remember, when you make ethanol from corn oil, or diesel
> from soy, that it uses a rough equivalency of fossil fuel to plant, grow
> and harvest the stuff.  So there is no savings---just conversion of  a
> fossel fuel product into an agricultural product into a automobile fuel
> product.  That is why ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) is such an outrageous
> company.  They want to convert corn into ethanol without telling us that to
> grow and harvest the corn, they have to use an equivalency of fossil
> fuel!!!  On the other hand, I guess we deserve the ripoffs that we allow to
> happen.  Incidentally, I think I'll purchase another vehicle (Vanagon) that
> gets 16 MPG, while I'm thinking about it.
>
> Don
> 85 Westy (16 MPG)
>