In a message dated 19/08/2005 9:01:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes:

On the  advice of several on the list, I decided to let a local mechanic =
tackle  my '85 Westfalia's exhaust instead of doing it myself. I went in =
with  both header pipes, and the connector to the cat, as well as all the  =
hardware and gaskets. All were purchased from Volkscafe. Pipes were good  =
used ones.=20

I got an estimate of about $150 to do the job. I  dropped the van off, =
and came back four hours later, to be told that one  of the head studs =
broke off, and it would be a while longer. This was no  surprise, as I =
have heard plenty of stories of troubles with getting off  the bolts and =
studs.=20

What was a surprise, however, was how the  mechanic dealt with the =
problem. I hung around for the last three hours  of the work. At one =
point I saw him pouring in coolant. This naturally  got me worried. He =
said he had to take off the lower thermostat housing  in order to get at =
the studs to drill them out. But he still wasn't  successful. He said =
that the drill bit slipped, and he ended up hacking  off a piece of the =
exhaust head. And there's a new stud, put in on an  angle, with about =
four washers and a nut on it. Next I saw him banging on  something with a =
pry bar. He said that the flange on the exhaust pipe  wasn't straight and =
he had to bang it in place to get a good seal against  the head. He also =
had trouble getting the thermostat housing back on. It  leaked several =
times.

I didn't discover how badly he whacked the  exhaust head until I got =
home. I guess after leaving he van for four  hours and sitting there for =
another three, I was ready to get out of  there. He also added an eshaust =
hanger that is bolted to the frame,  connected to the pipe before the =
cat. I had asked him to replace a broken  support that was there, which =
he didn't do. He also didn't put the heat  shields back on correctly.=20

So I know that these things can be  troublesome. But do you really have =
to remove the thermostat housing to  get at the studs? And is it his =
incompetence that he wasn't able to  remove the stud without messing up =
the head?=20

I also told him  that two of the heads have studs and two have bolts, as =
Volkscafe told  me. He said that there was a different mixture of bolts =
and studs, and  replaced them as he found them. It also looks like he =
left at least one  old stud in there.

So was this guy negligent? Advice? Oh, yeah, total  was seven hours for a =
total of $439.00. This is a local place that does a  lot of exhausts. =
There is just no good Vanagon mechanic locally, so an  exhaust shop =
seemed to be the next best  choice.

This is a prime example of why I do not and will  not and cannot give an
estimate of an exhaust system renewal on a Vanagon.   All it takes is one exhaust
port broken bolt or stud to cause a major  problem.  On the 1.9 engines the
exhaust port on the LH side rear is  completely inaccessible with the thermostat
housing in place.  Just  removing that piece could turn into a major problem.
 The bolts are long  and usually corroded and will break off no matter what
you do.  Any of the  rear header bolts or studs breaking off on any waterboxer
engine usually  requires removing other bits and/or dropping the engine to
drill, tap and  install Helicoils.  Now your into a coolant flush and refill also
!   This is a job for those with sufficient competence and expertise on
Vanagons.  There is no other exhaust system anywhere similar so even  competent
exhaust mechanic may have problems.  Always best to find someone  who knows what
he's up against and is WILLING to do the job correctly.   Otherwise your gona
get bit, hard !  This message is good a reply to the  innocent question of
Jeff also !

    Also a VERY good reason to install a complete  Stainless Steel exhaust
system with all stainless steel hardware. See my _STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel
 Exhaust System_ (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/stebro.htm)  webpage.
So......you will never have  to revisit this job again and if you need to remove
the system later it will be  EASY.

Cheers,

Frank  Condelli
Almonte, Ontario, Canada
'87 Westy, '90 Carat & Lionel  Trains
Vanagon/Vanagon Westfalia Service in the Ottawa Valley
_Frank Condelli &  Associates_ (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/busindex.html)
or http://frankcondelli.com
_STEBRO/Vanagon Stainless Steel  Mufflers_
(http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/stebro.htm)
_BusFusion_ (http://members.aol.com/BusFusion/bfhome.htm)  a VW Camper
camping event, Almonte, ON, June 09 ~ 12,  2005