--- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> So now we should abandon our budgets and accept
> any cost we can't afford because it's the "moral"
> thing to do.
> Conditioned? By whom?  Big-Price Brother?

Conditioned by the dominant corporate culture where
little matters but the bottom line. What budget? By
your own figures diesels are cheaper to run.  The fuel
is 15% more expensive, but they get 25% better
mileage.

> > we would be less reliant on foreign sources.
>
> Questions to ask:
>
> If indeed we are too reliant on foreign oil,
> why is the Alaskan oil being sold to South
> America?Yes- it was on my local TV news
> yesterday- we are sending oil to South America- I
> thought they had their own oil wells?
>
> Secondly , why does'nt the fuel conservation act
> re-instate the 55 mph speed limit?
>
> The use -less strategy to lower prices will only
> send the surplus to China and eslwhere.
>
> We need to ask why are'nt we exporting more
> bicycles, as they are much more used to riding
> them than we are- now they all want to become the
> world's automobile society? It was great that the
> Chinese wanted to western dress, music, etc.
> We did'nt see it coming, and from everything
> thing I have read, the demand from there and
> other places is driving up the cost of fuel.
>
> They have over a billion people- how many
> automobiles and trucks will that be?
>
> And do they care about clean air standards?
> I'm not aware of it. That will be one giant
> so-called greenhouse gas generator.
> And we will be the ones riding the bicycles.
> I have mine on my bike rack on my Vanagon- just
> in case.

All good points that have nothing to do with my
argument. Why are we selling oil to other countries?
See above: "Dominant Corporate Culture"
>
>
> > Diesels
> > also have the option of running a largely
> > renewable
> > fuel such as biodiesel. Some intrepid souls are
> > even
> > making their own biodiesel or running waste
> > veggie oil
> > rung from the arteries of junk-food junkies.
>
> How many of us have the time, knowledge or
> resources to produce our own fuel?

Biodiesel is becoming available all over the
country--even here in backward, redder than red Idaho.

> > Emissions are an issue, but many modern TDI's
> > have
> > catalytic converters and are very
> > clean--especially
> > compared to anything from 1982. I'm looking
> > into
> > running a "cat" on my TDI if I can find the
> > proper
> > unit and some room for it. Biodiesel also makes
> > for
> > cleaner emissions.
>
>
> Producing fuel from plants is expensive to
> produce, more than from oil.

More bottom line. How much have/are wars over oil
going to cost?

>
> Diesels running on vegetable oil may be cleaner
> but right now it's not available. It makes no
> sense to promote something that's not available,
> as if farmers with government support can provide
> all of our energy needs.
>
> It's true that growing plants replace oxygen for
> carbon dioxide, that trade-off is missing from
> crude oil production and use, but the earth is
> full of oil and all the refining technology is in
> place.
>
> The real problem is that our energy is a world
> commodity, and local energy and products are sold
> to the highest bidders elswhere, and we have all
> heard the demand is growing in places like China
> and India= Supply and demand.

Right--supply and demand.  Less demand=less cost.

> So when talking about lowering the price of fuel
> forget about it.
> If we could form fuel cooperatives where we all
> invested in Biofuel, alcohol and Biodoesel,  how
> much would it cost?
>
> And most "green" products are sold at higher
> prices, the pitch that you are helping to save
> the choking people in Kyoto, or save the snails,
> whales, or bales.

I love snails with garlic and butter.

Tom

>
>
> Robert
>
> 1982 Westfalia
> >
> >
> > Tom
> >
> > --- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ok- SO everyone is saying they want a Diesel
> > -in
> > > your Vanagon.
> > >
> > > Diesel sells in the Seattle area for $3.12 a
> > > gallon right now.
> > >
> > > I use regular gas @ 2.72 a gallon.
> > >
> > > I get about 24 mpg if I drive under 60 mph.
> > >
> > > Your Diesel Vanagon gets 30 mpg, or about a
> > range
> > > of 480 miles per tank.
> > >
> > > My gas Vanagon gets 384 miles per tank at 55
> > mph.
> > >
> > > My full tank of 16 gallons costs $43.52.
> > >
> > > Diesel tankful costs $49.92
> > >
> > > Diesel saves $6.40 and gives about 48 extra
> > miles
> > > for that cost.
> > >
> > > If I fill a gerry can with $6.40 in gas, I
> > can
> > > extend my range to 432 miles.
> > >
> > > SO even at the price 0f $3.12 a gallon, you
> > still
> > > can get an extra 48 miles over the gas .
> > >
> > > 48 miles , $6.40 in savings , each tank.
> > >
> > > $50.00 a tank- sounds cheap , doesn't it?
> > >
> > > When I got my Vanagon in 1995 it cost only
> > $17.00
> > > to fill the tank.
> > >
> > > How do they afford it? The world , that is?
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > > 1982 Westfalia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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