Tim, 

Sorry but I could not let this one get away..

�It can't be built so it's a simple exercise in imagination masturbation. An
interesting design exercise? Hardly.�

If all designers listened to the likes of automobile engineers with similar
dispositions regarding these �imagination masturbation� exercises than
nothing of true design impact would ever be created. You would get square
box cars with, hard uncomfortable interiors,  no curves, no innovation and
zero design sensibility.

It is for this single reason alone they created industrial designers, to
this day it why they are responsible for bridging the gap between the
imagination of the creative mind, the functionality of purposeful and useful
design initiatives and the engineers that constantly tell them it can not be
done. The industrial designers job is see that it can be done within the
parameters the auto manufactures provide them, and in some cases they
succeed. 

I am sure the beloved Westy Campers were in a similar design exercise but
some great German minded engineers and industrial designers got together and
solved the problems to make the vehicle reality.

Try to understand that it is the imagination of human beings that allow us
to see past our limitations, hence the key importance of why these
�imagination masturbation� exercises are so important as they show us what
might be possible if we just put our minds to it.

-- 
Rob
NYC/Long Beach, NY
88 Wolfsburg, Silver

on 3/3/06 12:42 PM, Aristotle Sagan at killer.jupiter@gmail.com wrote:

> None the less. Many of us Engineer types  look at fluff like this and say...
> So what? It can't be built so it's a simple exercise in imagination
> masturbation. An interesting design exercise? Hardly.
> 
> tim in san jose
> 
> On 3/2/06, robertmstewart <robertmstewart@mac.com> wrote:
>> Regardless of the lack of "common sense engineering" from the product
>> visualization animation what they propose in some cases in not far fetched,
>> with the right engineering, space allocations, and design refinements some
>> of the key ideas they show could be created. It is an interesting design
>> exercise to show you nothing more than the possibilities.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Rob
>> NYC/Long Beach, NY
>> 88 Wolfsburg, Silver
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> >> The link shows a quick time video movie which describes the new
>>>> >> Vanagon/Microbus (what ever they are calling it).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It visually shows all the ideas they had at the time, camping system,
>>>> >> foldout walls, folding seats that become stairs to go the upper bunk,
>>>> >> creative storage and more. Check it out, worth the video download.
>>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > This is actually a "design concept" by a french canadian group, I believe
>>> it
>>> > was their entry to a competition-- in 2004. VW had nothing to do with the
>>> > entry, though. Clearly it was conceived by a bunch of non-engineers. The
>>> > design is unworkable in the extreme. Everything from not having enough
>>> room
>>> > anywhere for an engine, transmission, and radiator (or batteries and
>>> > drive-motors, even); to "magic" tables, awnings, and pop top that seem to
>>> > unfold endlessly out of thin air, having extreme strength and taking up no
>>> > volume when stowed; to a segmented windshield that'd never pass visibility
>>> > regulations in ANY country; to a blunt front end that would likely be
>>> > aerodynamically WORSE than the Vanagon. No VW engineer would ever approve
>>> > such a fantasy, even as a simple marketing preview.
>>> > --
>>> > John Bange
>>> > '90 Vanagon - "Geldsauger"
> 
>