True. Without them of course, everyone would be knee
deep in sh*t.

--- Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>
> If we were to go back to the days of the horse
> and buggy,  the modern enviromentalist would  a
> pooper scooper.
>
> Robert
>
> 1982 Westfalia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- River Clan <ri@RIVERCLAN.ORG> wrote:
>
> > There is more to running biodiesel than cost.
> > People don't put in
> > diesels to run petroleum, at least not
> > many.....
> >
> > See, in America, we don't pay "True Costs".
> > Instead, it is subsidized
> > by occupation, strong arming, slave labor in
> > 3rd world countries,
> > etc. All so we can have a better standard of
> > living. Just like when
> > we lived in Rome.
> >
> > Some of us ideological people look further than
> > just the $$, and
> > think about the implications to not only the
> > world, but to our soul
> > for being on this slippery slope of riding on
> > others backs.
> >
> > Save a buck at Walmart, and cause that laborer
> > in China to work in
> > conditions that we wouldn't ask of our pets.
> >
> > Fuel is the same. How many Iraqis & Marines
> > lives are in each tank of
> > gas across america?
> >
> > Numbers rule! Now add all the costs that were
> > forgotten, or hidden by
> > subsidized war for oil.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Ri
> > http://www.greaseworks.org
> >
> >
> > On Mar 10, 2006, at 7:32 AM, Pensioner wrote:
> >
> > > Musing over conversions, one of my many
> > talents, brings me to
> > > consider the
> > > cost-benefit scenarios.  Let's postulate that
> > we drive 10000 miles
> > > per year
> > > just to use easy numbers.  Discounting the
> > normal maintenance for
> > > both a
> > > converted vanagon and a non-converted
> > vanagon, the costs of
> > > conversion seem
> > > to range from ~$14000 (not a misprint) in my
> > case to perhaps $3000
> > > for an
> > > average of $5000 (high but we have to start
> > somewhere).
> > >
> > > If fuel costs over time are the principal
> > reason for going to
> > > diesel (not
> > > fuel availability, or the desire to side with
> > Willie on the BioDiesel
> > > concert) then it makes sense to look at the
> > fuel savings one would
> > > enjoy
> > > over that 10000 miles per year.  Diesel
> > currently costs about %10
> > > more than
> > > 87 Octane and is likely to stay that way.
> > For $2.50/gallon 87
> > > octane let's
> > > say and vanagon average fuel efficiency of 17
> > miles per gallon.
> > > The gallons
> > > per year is easily found to be ~588 gallons
> > times $2.50 gives $1470
> > > per year
> > > fuel cost before conversion.   If you go with
> > diesel the fuel
> > > consumption
> > > will probably be on the order of 25 miles per
> > gallon.  For the same
> > > 10000
> > > miles per year you'll pay $1100 in fuel costs
> > including the %10
> > > higher price
> > > for diesel.  You will get additional range
> > between fuel stops but
> > > you'll
> > > need it as not all fuel services feature
> > diesel.
> > >
> > > In summary you'll save $370 per year in fuel
> > costs for 10000 miles
> > > per year.
> > > How many years to break even on the
> > installation is left as an
> > > excercise for
> > > the reader.
> > >
> > > Seems to be over ten years if your previously
> > owned motor lasts
> > > that long.
> > > FTSOE let's say it does.  You will have saved
> > $3700 towards the motor
> > > replacement.
> > >
> > > The above example is to be considered a
> > conservative estimate
> > > process, your
> > > mileage, tolerance, costs, will no doubt be
> > different.
> > >
> > > "If a man professes knowledge but cannot
> > express that knowledge in
> > > numbers,
> > > then that knowledge is of a meagre and
> > insufficient kind"  -- Lord
> > > Kelvin
> > >
> > > Numbers rule!
> > >
> >
>
>
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