FWIW, Zoltan did email me off-line.  I think he thought his reply was rather
conciliatory and somewhat apologetic, but I thought he actually put his foot
even further into his mouth than it already was. I replied to that effect
off-line.  We agreed, without rancor, to limit our future discussions to
vanagons.

So I'm no less perplexed by the whole thing than I was initially, but what
the ---- (fill in word of your choice), it's history as far as I'm
concerned.

I did get p-mail from someone else saying that objections like mine might
better be made in p-mail, not to the list.  I definitely don't agree with
that.  I think if someone finds something on the list really offensive, they
need to express that to the whole list.  If the person who took offense is
being off the wall, they'll hear it from everyone else.  In this case those
who responded agreed with me.  Hopefully Zoltan got the message and will
keep his perceptions of gender differences off the list in the future.  And
others with views like his will realize that they risk being quite offensive
if they express them in this company.

Joy

****************************************************************
Joy Hecht
and Matilda, 1989 Burgundy Vanagon

For musings about life and the vanadventures:
http://www.joyhecht.net

****************************************************************

:::-----Original Message-----
:::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf
:::Of Raceingcajun
:::Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:47 PM
:::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
:::Subject: Re: Seized Engine? ..........Stand up man?????
:::
:::    Just another $.02 worth. I think a "Stand Up Man" would have offered
:::an
:::apology by now. If not to Joy personally, to the list in general!
:::
:::
:::Howard
:::
:::
:::----- Original Message -----
:::From: "David Gunning" <davidgunning@PIVOT.NET>
:::To: <    >
:::Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:35 PM
:::Subject: Re: Seized Engine?
:::
:::
:::> Thanks for the update, Joy.  Can't say that I am really too surprised,
:::> however.  I believe what is happening is that there may be a computer
:::> generated software running, which probably screens for specific four
:::letter
:::> words.  Better than nothing, I suppose, but that leaves the rest of us
:::in
:::> the lurch.  Especially when trying to deal with postings of nasty ideas
:::and
:::> insults couched within and screened by acceptable common, non-
:::offensive,
:::> non-four letter word language usage.
:::>
:::> Maybe the only thing can be done is let the buggers know, in no
:::uncertain
:::> terms (like you certainly did!), that we find those kinds of postings
:::> repulsive, offensive and completely unacceptable.
:::>
:::> Next time I'll try not to be so wishy-washy with my return comments to
:::the
:::> nasty buggers.
:::>
:::> Dave
:::>
:::> davidgunning@pivot.net
:::>
:::>
:::> ----- Original Message -----
:::> From: "Joy Hecht" <jhecht@ALUM.MIT.EDU>
:::> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
:::> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:00 PM
:::> Subject: Re: Seized Engine?
:::>
:::>
:::> > :::-----Original Message-----
:::> > :::From: David Gunning [mailto:davidgunning@pivot.net]
:::> > :::Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 8:03 PM
:::> > :::To: Joy Hecht
:::> > :::Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
:::> > :::Subject: Re: Re: Seized Engine?
:::> > :::
:::> > :::
:::> > :::Joy,
:::> > :::
:::> > :::Your comments make perfect sense to me.  The list moderator ought
:::to
:::> > take
:::> > :::measures to see to it that there is no place on the list for such
:::> > :::misplaced
:::> > :::misogynist sentiments to be published, in the first place.
:::Anything
:::> > less
:::> > :::on
:::> > :::the part of the list moderator amounts to a policy of tacit
:::approval
:::> > for
:::> > :::the
:::> > :::original insulting comments, in the first place, from my view.
:::> > :::
:::> >
:::> > Well, the moderator of this list seems to see his role as screening
:::for
:::a
:::> > few specific words deemed offensive, but not for the possibly much
:::more
:::> > offensive or destructive content of the views expressed.  But that's
:::been
:::> > an
:::> > ongoing issue as long as I've been on the list.
:::> >
:::> >
:::> >
:::> > Joy
:::> >
:::> >
:::> > :::The list and it's members, of which you are one, certainly deserve
:::> > better
:::> > :::than that.
:::> > :::
:::> > :::Dave
:::> > :::
:::> > :::davidgunning@pivot.net
:::> >
:::>
:::>
:::> --
:::> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
:::> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
:::> Version: 0.0.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/312 - Release Date: 4/14/06
:::>
:::>