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Subject:Re: Am I getting through to the list?
From:Larry Alofs
Date:Sat, 17 Jun 2006 07:52:36 -0500

I've been getting these too, but I didn't realize that they may be
triggered by my posts.
  I assumed that they resulted from someone else on the list sending
something to the wrong list address and that the server was for some
reason sending its responses to everyone instead of just the sender.

Larry A.

Andrew Grebneff wrote:

> Every time I send a message since a couple of weeks or so ago, I get
> a response as below, and have no idea whether my postings are making
> it...
>
>> X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2
>> Date:         Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:24:10 -0400
>> Reply-To: "L-Soft list server at Vanagon List (1.8d)"
>> <LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> From: "L-Soft list server at Vanagon List (1.8d)"
>> <LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Subject:      [VANAGON] Your message to
>> vanagon-request@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> X-PMX-Version: 5.2.0.264296, Antispam-Engine: 2.3.0.1,
>> Antispam-Data: 2006.6.16.151433
>> X-PerlMx-Spam: Gauge=IIIIIII, Probability=7%, Report='__HAS_MSGID 0,
>> __LINES_OF_YELLING 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __SANE_MSGID 0'
>>
>> Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:24:10
>>
>> Your message  to vanagon-request@GERRY.VANAGON.COM has been
>> forwarded to
>> the "list owners" (the people who manage the vanagon list). If you
>> wanted
>> to reach a human being, you used the correct procedure and you can
>> ignore
>> the remainder of this  message. If you were trying to  send a command
>> for
>> the computer to execute, please read on.
>>
>> The  vanagon list  is managed  by  a ListServ  server. ListServ
>> commands
>> should    always    be   sent    to    the    "ListServ"
>> address,    ie
>> LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM. ListServ never tries to process messages
>> sent
>> to the vanagon-request address; it simply forwards them to a human
>> being,
>> and acknowledges receipt with the present message.
>>
>> The "listname-request" convention originated on  the Internet a long
>> time
>> ago. At  the time, lists were  always managed manually, and  this
>> address
>> was defined as an alias for the  person(s) in charge of the mailing
>> list.
>> You would write to the  "listname-request" address to ask for
>> information
>> about the list, ask  to be added to the list,  make suggestions about
>> the
>> contents and policy, etc. Because this  address was always a human
>> being,
>> people  knew and  expected to  be  talking to  a  human being,  not
>> to  a
>> computer.  Unfortunately, some  recent  list  management packages
>> screen
>> incoming  messages  to  the  "listname-request" address  and
>> attempt  to
>> determine whether they are requests to  join or leave the list. They
>> look
>> for words such as "subscribe", "add",  "leave", "off", and so on. If
>> they
>> decide your message is  a request to join or leave  the list, they
>> update
>> the list automatically;  otherwise, they forward the message  to the
>> list
>> owners. Naturally, this means that if  you write to the list owners
>> about
>> someone else's  unsuccessful attempts to  leave the list, you  stand
>> good
>> chances of  being automatically removed  from the list, whereas  the
>> list
>> owners will never receive your message. No one really benefits from
>> this.
>> There is no  reliable mechanism to contact a human  being for
>> assistance,
>> and you can never  be sure whether your request will  be interpreted
>> as a
>> command or as a message to the list owners. This is why ListServ uses
>> two
>> separate addresses, one for the people in  charge of the list and one
>> for
>> the computer  that runs it.  This way you  always know what  will
>> happen,
>> especially if you are writing in a language other than English.
>>
>> In  any case,  if your  message was  a ListServ  command, you  should
>> now
>> resend it  to LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM. The  list owners know  that
>> you
>> have  received this  message  and may  assume that  you  will resend
>> the
>> command  on your  own. You  will find  instructions for  the most
>> common
>> administrative requests below.
>>
>> +---------------------+
>> |  TO LEAVE THE LIST  |
>> +---------------------+
>>
>> Write to LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM and, in the text of your message
>> (not
>> the subject line), write: SIGNOFF vanagon
>>
>> +--------------------+
>> |  TO JOIN THE LIST  |
>> +--------------------+
>>
>> Write to LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM and, in the text of your message
>> (not
>> the subject line), write: SUBSCRIBE vanagon
>>
>> +------------------------+
>> |  FOR MORE INFORMATION  |
>> +------------------------+
>>
>> Write to LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM and, in the text of your message
>> (not
>> the subject  line), write:  "HELP" or "INFO"  (without the  quotes).
>> HELP
>> will give you a  short help message and INFO a list  of the documents
>> you
>> can order.
>
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