Have you ever gone here:

http://tech.bentleypublishers.com/forum.jspa?forumID=49&start=0

?

There may be something in those archives, or somebody may know... I think
the moderator of that board was on the list, I dunno if he still is or not.

Cya,
Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: "robert shawn feller" <carboncow@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: conflicting cooling problem data...(this one is for the true
experts...)

> for those following my search for correct ohm readings at a given temp for
> the Coolant Temp Sender...I have not finished my question yet, but I did
> get
> up this piece of info I bugged the Bentley people for last fall. Not very
> specific but it shows that Ken's numbers are accurate readings and the
> chart
> I had originally was for the temp2 sensor, which has different readings.
> see
> pdf here I posted on my site:
>
> http://carboncow.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?cid=3&lid=4
>
> My quest continues for more specific readings over the full range. Since I
> was told this a standard VDO sender range (although it may be a bosch
> sender) therefor the range has to be published somewhere!
>
> Shawn
>
> On 6/24/06, robert shawn feller <carboncow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> dan,
>>
>> i think you must have a 1.9 then as my water temp sender is two wires
>> coming from the housing (2.1L), i don't ground tot he housing and have
>> checked my ground wire. as you state that would give me a low reading and
>> not high which is my problem.
>>
>> ken just said he tested both the water sender and the temp2 side by side
>> with different readings/curves...i don't see how there can be 1000ohm
>> difference as he states...mine are almost identical in readings at any
>> time.
>>
>>
>> Shawn
>>
>>
>> On 6/24/06, Daniel Katz <katzd54@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > robert:
>> >
>> > what i am calling temp i is one wire temp gauge
>> > sending unit, grounded via threads. temp ii is two
>> > wire sensor for ecu. common set-up, not peculaliar to
>> > german cars. temp verses resistance characteristics
>> > are close for i and ii - many k ohm cold, 100's of
>> > ohms operating temp. poorly bonded thermostat housing
>> > (i.e., poor ground) will not effect temp ii, but will
>> > make temp gauge read low as current from temp i has to
>> > flow through high resistance to ground.
>> >
>> > dan
>> >
>> > --- robert shawn feller <carboncow@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Dan,
>> > >
>> > > Do you have confirmation or a chart that the temp2
>> > > sensor has the same ohm
>> > > readings for a given temp. If so why wouldn't the
>> > > design allow the ECU and
>> > > the Temp Gauge to work off the same sender (rather
>> > > rudant don't you think)
>> > > or why wouldn't they make the parts interchangable
>> > > then in the housing? (i'm
>> > > trying rationalize german over engineering! this is
>> > > the same company that
>> > > puts two pressure sensors on the master cylinder for
>> > > the brake lights!)
>> > >
>> > > Can I simply share the connections on the temp2
>> > > sensor as I recall the van
>> > > doesn't run so great with the temp2 disconnected, or
>> > > maybe it just doesn't
>> > > like to start.
>> > >
>> > > I'll start with this idea.
>> > >
>> > > Shawn
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 6/24/06, Daniel L. Katz <katzd54@yahoo.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > obviously a bad temp i sending unit.
>> > > >
>> > > > could prove this by heating in water on the stove
>> > > and monitoring both
>> > > > sensor resistance and water temp.
>> > > >
>> > > > other confirmation would be to test temp ii
>> > > sensor, which has similar
>> > > > specified temperature-resistance characteristics.
>> > > >
>> > > > dan
>> > > >
>> > > > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 12:40:29 -0400, robert shawn
>> > > feller
>> > > > <carboncow@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >I've just about had it trying to figure out why
>> > > my gauge/LED tell me I'm
>> > > > >running very warm and often "hot" when I'm
>> > > stopped.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I've got conflicting troubleshooting info
>> > > everywhere, here is the
>> > > > process:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >this spring my temp gauge was running very low.
>> > > Tests showed a faulty
>> > > > temp1
>> > > > >sender unit. I got a new unit from van-cafe.com
>> > > along with a new stock
>> > > > >thermostat. Instantly my gauge was now showing
>> > > high with intermittent LED
>> > > > >activity (not due to the level). I doubted the
>> > > gauge so I pulled out my
>> > > > 3M
>> > > > >Non Contact Thermometer and it shows EVERYTHING
>> > > seams fine, block and
>> > > > >coolant hoses are all below 196F. I double
>> > > checked my fan and its working
>> > > > >all speeds. van-cafe.com was nice enough to send
>> > > me another sender unit
>> > > > >although they doubted there was a failure in the
>> > > sender. I replaced the
>> > > > >sender along with another thermostat and guess
>> > > what, still running hot. I
>> > > > >owed them $12!
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Before I replace the radiator and fan thermal
>> > > switch as many have
>> > > > >recommended I wanted to check a few things. R.
>> > > Mathiew sent me a OHM
>> > > > chart
>> > > > >showing the resistance at all temps. Now I see a
>> > > problem unless his chart
>> > > > is
>> > > > >wrong.
>> > > > >With a COLD engine the OHM reading should be
>> > > 1500-2000 according to his
>> > > > >chart, but my reading on my FLUKE multitester
>> > > shows 800OHM, this was
>> > > > >confirmed with a less professional unit. As the
>> > > engine warms the chart
>> > > > also
>> > > > >shows that the "high" temps should be between
>> > > 160-220OHM at 212F. All
>> > > > >readings on the multitester came way to early, I
>> > > was still able to touch
>> > > > >hoses when the reading on the ohms said my hand
>> > > should be burnt. Took the
>> > > > >van around the block and its been idling for 30
>> > > minutes and the reading
>> > > > is
>> > > > >currently 62.4 OHM which should have my engine
>> > > block melting. My 3M tells
>> > > > me
>> > > > >the hottest pipe from the water pump to the
>> > > thermostat housing is only
>> > > > 196F
>> > > > >and hottest spot I can find on the engine block
>> > > is 192F. The fan has yet
>> > > > to
>> > > > >cycle today as it is 82F in Ohio but it has
>> > > cycled before in hotter
>> > > > weather.
>> > > > >I'm quite sure that thermoswitch is working fine.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I built a resistance box to test the dash guage
>> > > and it works 100% OK. The
>> > > > >gauge shows the proper locations for a given
>> > > resistance. I have not
>> > > > checked
>> > > > >voltage at the gauge but if my resistance box
>> > > shows proper numbers I
>> > > > should
>> > > > >be OK. Additionally my mutitester readings are
>> > > showing the same "high"
>> > > > >readings from the sender unit. So here are my
>> > > questions:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >   - Does anyone think I've got to bad sender
>> > > unit, again? (bad
>> > > > >   batch/run?)
>> > > > >   - Could the OHM readings given to me be
>> > > incorrect? (I'll display them
>> > > > >   below)
>> > > > >   - What else can I do before I spend (as some
>> > > recommend) $200 on a
>> > > > >   radiator and fan thermswitch, which doesn't
>> > > make sense to me at this
>> > > > time.
>> > > > >   There has been much talk about radiator flow
>> > > restriction.
>> > > > >   - Would you not agree that the metal pipe from
>> > > the water pump to
>> > > > >   thermostat housing is the hottest water
>> > > reading for an thermo-gun and
>> > > > 196F
>> > > > >   is acceptable?
>> > > > >   - Get a sender from another vendor? (that
>> > > would make three!)
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I know many have stated to check wiring but and
>> > > increase in resistance
>> > > > from
>> > > > >old wiring or bad ground would show a low reading
>> > > as when my first sender
>> > > > >failed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I was told this sender is a standard VDO ohm
>> > > range so can someone check
>> > > > >these temp to ohm numbers below. I cannot find
>> > > data in Bentley or other
>> > > > >sources.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Lastly I pulled the Coolant Level Warning sender
>> > > last weekend and I
>> > > > forget
>> > > > >where it goes in the relay/fuse box. Top row far
>> > > right?
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Temperature sensor resistance
>> > > > >
>> > > > >F  (C)                  Ohms
>> > > > >50  10                    3100-4100
>> > > > >68  20                    2000-3000
>> > > > >86  30                    1500-2000
>> > > > >104 40                    1000-1500
>> > > > >122 50                     750- 950
>> > > > >140 60                     540- 650
>> > > > >158 70                     380- 480
>> > > > >176 80                     290- 360
>> > > > >194 90                     205- 280
>> > > > >212 100                    160- 220
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Thanks.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >--
>> > > > >shawn feller, ohio
>> > > > >1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
>> > > > >1993 vw eurovan gl
>> > > > >plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and
>> > > wife (all require to
>> > > > much
>> > > > >maintenance, accept the dog)...
>> > > > >
>> > > > > www.carboncow.com
>> > > > >www.carboncow.net
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > === message truncated ===
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > Do You Yahoo!?
>> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> shawn feller, ohio
>> 1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
>> 1993 vw eurovan gl
>> plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and wife (all require to
>> much
>> maintenance, accept the dog)...
>>
>> www.carboncow.com
>> www.carboncow.net
>>
>
>
>
> --
> shawn feller, ohio
> 1986 vw vanagon gl westfalia
> 1993 vw eurovan gl
> plus a couple of saabs, boats, jet skis, dog and wife (all require to much
> maintenance, accept the dog)...
>
> www.carboncow.com
> www.carboncow.net