The patent on R-12 expired in the 50's. So what's the current conspiracy
theorists' rant on why they waited 40 years to get in a flap about replacing
it?

Cya,
Robert

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Schwaia" <jeff@VANAGONPARTS.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: freeze 12

> John,
>
> Well said.  The simple fact is that we are stuck with R134a because the
> large corporations that lobby the EPA were able to get R12 off the market
> when their patent ran out.  And guess what they had for a replacement... a
> newly patented product called R134a.
>
> Hydrocarbon (HC) based refrigerants are widely used worldwide without
> issue.
> Our EPA loves to stand on it's soap box and talk about the environmental
> benefits of R134 over R12, and they're right, R12 takes 130 years to
> dissipate, whilst R134a is gone in 16.  What they don't tell you is that
> HC
> based refrigerants dissipate in less than 1 year, hmmm...
>
> Here in the USA, we always follow the golden rule:  "Those with the gold,
> make the rules"
>
> Okay, I'm stepping down off of my soap box now.
>
> Happy 4th,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM]On Behalf
> Of John Bange
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:10 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: freeze 12
>
>
>>
>> Now the thing about Freeze 12 is it is PROPANE based. A news station
>> back home once serviced a car with freeze 12 and made a small leak in
>> the evaporator. They ran the car for 30 minutes or so all closed up and
>> had a mannequin inside with a cig and lighter. When the made the lighter
>> ignite the whole interior became a fire bomb and exploded.
>>
>> Just something to think about. I smoke so no freeze 12 for me
>
>
> Typical local news ratings-grab stunt. All hydrocarbon refrigerants are
> odorized, just like the LPG in your barbecue tank and the NG in your home
> gas lines, for that very reason. There's no way you could STAND to be in
> the
> car until an explosive fuel air ratio was reached.  You could just as
> easily
> blow yourself up leaving the stove on in a westy. Propane there too, a lot
> more than 18oz of it, and it's contained in a system DESIGNED to vent
> freely
> into the interior-- no need for a production assistant to puncture
> anything.
> Every refrigerator sold in Germany uses hydrocarbon refrigerant.  Like
> anywhere else, safety with HC chillers is a matter of maintenance and
> caution. Sure, it has the potential to be a greater fire hazard than
> R134a,
> but so does gasoline over diesel. Life's a series of calculated risks.
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Bange
> '90 Vanagon - "Geldsauger"