I like this.

Jim

On Dec 27, 2006, at 1:47 AM, Nathaniel Poole wrote:

> My experience is that folks who do not consider themselves artists  
> have a
> distorted view of what it means to be one (especially those secret,
> frustrated artists out there). Culturally it�s a loaded label, very
> different from other professions. Unfortunately, pop culture has  
> created a
> very skewed and distorted idea of what it means to be an artist,  
> which is
> one reason why so many artists are tweakers, junkies, misfits,  
> antisocial
> etc, etc. As an artist you are expected to be messed up, and this is
> reinforced over and again in mass media. Often these individuals  
> (ie Ray
> Charles, Johnny Cash) are also portrayed as larger than life  
> geniuses, which
> also contributes to the myth
> It�s important to recognise that the distinction between fine art  
> and pop
> art was created to differentiate the elite from the �masses�, at  
> least in
> literature. Not to mention that fact that you need a BFA to  
> understand what
> the hell is happening at a local gallery. All this contributes to a  
> snob
> stigma that I believe tends to hover around the profession.
> This is all so ironic given the utter lack of support there really  
> is for
> artists, especially those who are not celebrities. Maybe these vans  
> of ours
> help bridge some of these stupid, unnecessary cultural gaps.
>
>
>
> On 12/26/06 8:43 PM, "Jim Felder" <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote:
>
>> Evan,
>>
>> With all due respect, I don't recall seeing any such distinction
>> being allowed for in Joy's post. Imagine being called a snob because
>> you were a lifeong piano tuner. Whether or not you could prove you
>> were in the top 100 piano tuners in the western world, you'd still
>> consider it an offense if you were called a snob because of your
>> profession. Even if you didn't consider it offensive, you'd likely
>> write a response such as I felt entitled to.
>>
>> I don't consider myself superior to anyone. I don't consider myself
>> exceptional. I just do what I do, and it usually involves art and
>> creativity, even when I am rebuilding an engine helping my
>> granddaughter with her homework, as that is how I solve problems. Are
>> there better ways to solve problems? I sure hope so.  I am good with
>> my hands no matter what I apply them to; that's all I have to work
>> with. If I were to say I was good with numbers, or running, or
>> lifting weights, or or fitting into tight spaces, would I be a snob?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2006, at 10:14 PM, Evan Mac Donald wrote:
>>
>>> Jim, I don't think YOU are one of the type of people that was being
>>> refered to. You are actually, prove-ably using your skills. Not
>>> claiming to have some, with little actual result...
>>>
>>> Jim Felder <felder@KNOLOGY.NET> wrote:  There seems to be
>>>> snob thing about calling oneself an artist, or creative, or
>>>> "dancing to a
>>>> different drummer" - as if it made us all so exceptional and
>>>> different and
>>>> therefore somehow superior to all those more mundane folks out
>>>> there. I
>>>> don't want to go there.
>>>
>>> Why is it that you think that in calling myself an artist--I paint,
>>> illustrate, design and write for a living--that I'm being any  
>>> more of
>>> a "snob" than someone who calls himself or herself an engineer or
>>> policeman or attorney?
>>>
>>> If there's snobbery about my profession, it seems to be coming from
>>> that chip on your shoulder, not mine. I am an artist, have never  
>>> been
>>> anything but an artist, and have never been expected (until now) to
>>> apologize for it (which I won't).
>>>
>>> Don't call me a snob because of what I do.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> :::-----Original Message-----
>>>> :::From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> :::Of joe trussell
>>>> :::Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:04 PM
>>>> :::To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> :::Subject: Re: Come out of the closet, all
>>>> :::
>>>> :::This is a good topic, and I apologize for coming to the party
>>>> late--it's
>>>> :::been a busy weekend!
>>>> :::
>>>> :::I write and occasionally get published, although I'm not sure if
>>>> that
>>>> :::makes
>>>> :::me a writer. I write poetry, and some of that gets published as
>>>> well,
>>>> :::but
>>>> :::I'm not sure if it's art.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::I've been playing guitar in a band called Chester Drawers for
>>>> thirteen
>>>> :::years, a band that consists of me and a buddy who get together
>>>> once a
>>>> :::week
>>>> :::and drink beer and learn songs, but we've never actually played
>>>> a gig in
>>>> :::an
>>>> :::establishment, so I don't know if that makes me a musician.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::I occasionally cater parties and events with jambalaya, gumbo,
>>>> boiled
>>>> :::crawfish, or fried catfish, but that doesn't make me a chef.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::I've been in the securities industry for twelve years, but I do
>>>> it to pay
>>>> :::the bills and choose not to let the career dictate how I live (I
>>>> have my
>>>> :::kids for that).
>>>> :::
>>>> :::I drive a Vanagon and have torn it down and rebuilt it along
>>>> with a dozen
>>>> :::other cars, but that doesn't make me a mechanic.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::Driving this Vanagon puts me in about a .01 percentile among
>>>> drivers in
>>>> :::this
>>>> :::country, and I like that. As I've said before, my vehicle is
>>>> the best
>>>> :::(in
>>>> :::my mind). I'm not really sure what my identity is but I know it
>>>> involves
>>>> :::this odd machine.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::So, I'm not quite arsty-fartsy, not quite buttoned-up, not
>>>> really a
>>>> :::hippie,
>>>> :::and most certainly not quite sane. That makes me a Vanagon  
>>>> owner.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::Joe T.
>>>> :::
>>>> :::
>>>> :::
>>>> :::>From: mordo
>>>> :::>Reply-To: mordo
>>>> :::>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> :::>Subject: Come out of the closet, all
>>>> :::>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:12:45 -0500
>>>> :::>
>>>> :::>Former woodwright and ornamental plasterer. Currently  
>>>> selling and
>>>> :::managing
>>>> :::>the craft of ornamental plaster and scagliola restoration.
>>>> :::>
>>>> :::>www.haylesandhowe.com
>>>> :::>
>>>> :::>--
>>>> :::>mordo
>>>> :::>1990 Carat
>>>> :::
>>>> :::________________________________________________________________ 
>>>> _
>>>> :::Find sales, coupons, and free shipping, all in one place! MSN
>>>> Shopping
>>>> :::Sales & Deals
>>>> :::http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?
>>>> ctid=198,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=200639
>>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Felder
>>> felder@knology.net
>>>
>>> "I long ago lost a hound, a bay horse, and a turtle dove, and am
>>> still on their trail. Many are the travelers I have spoken to
>>> concerning them, describing their tracks and what calls they  
>>> answered
>>> to. I have met one or two who had heard the hound, and the tramp of
>>> the horse, and even seen the dove disappear behind a cloud, and they
>>> seemed as anxious to recover them as if they had lost them
>>> themselves." - henry thoreau
>>>
>

Jim Felder
felder@knology.net

  "I long ago lost a hound, a bay horse, and a turtle dove, and am  
still on their trail. Many are the travelers I have spoken to  
concerning them, describing their tracks and what calls they answered  
to. I have met one or two who had heard the hound, and the tramp of  
the horse, and even seen the dove disappear behind a cloud, and they  
seemed as anxious to recover them as if they had lost them  
themselves." - henry thoreau