racers exaggerating HP numbers I cant imagine that
when the green flag drops the BS stops

I owned and have spent allot of time on both engine and chassis dynos great
for tuning BUT most dyno test are FULL throttle and who drives like that
besides Brady
I also did allot of chassis dyno testing with vanagons inconsistent at best
I did have one 84 van with a B Bob 2.1 engine that put out 75 HP at the rear
wheels every time I checked it.
 that became my base line
numbers don't mean sh**
every dyno is different some even have Hollywood HP numbers

to even feel a differance in a vanagon you would need 10 more HP
I like an engine that spins without self destructing whats what I do in my
engines make it spin up
If you change the shift point 1k and the engine can take it you have
something more to work with
the Z tech shifts a 6500 RPM screw the factory HP numbers
whats the throttle responce like
whats the shift point
and will it stay together

Bob Donalds
Bosotn Engine

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson@GORGE.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:05 AM
Subject: Power output of actual vans? (long)

> Has anyone actually documented the output of the various engine combos in
> vans?  I ask this with a LOT of experience with boasting car owners,
> optimistic aftermarket parts vendors, erroneous factory HP figures, etc.
> While involved in racing with the Porsche brand, HP was an often
> exaggerated
> and misrepresented figure, sometimes stated as 'at the crank' sometimes
> "at
> the wheels" and with all kinds of different  'correction factors' inserted
> before the bottom line.  The same motor  in the same chassis would produce
> varied numbers on different brand dynos, also.
>  So, when we hear figures for all these motor/combos, what, exactly are we
> hearing?  Where do the numbers come from?  If someone simply quotes what
> the
> factory said the power  figures were, for a particular type motor, brand
> new,  it may not have much relation to 'that motor' in the van..
>  For instance, Porsche, in it's sales verbiage in the '80s,  understated
> the HP of the 928 motor by a significant amount. Said  to  have been done
> because 911 at that time was the company's designated high performance
> model
> and they didn't want to confuse their Base, 'The Faithful'   (911s are the
> only "real" Porsche)   by offering a Porsche with more acknowledged hp
> than
> the 911.  And the Dodge Viper's hype gave HP output figures in the 450 hp
> range, but they figured it at the crank, not at the wheels..
>  So when someone says.."Ha, the X-type conversion motor has 150hp (or
> whatever), while the WBX is only 90 or some such, it'd be interesting to
> hear where those numbers are coming from.
>  Aftermarket 'speed-parts'...First thing done on a racecar during engine
> development is to do a 'baseline' dyno run, so you can  see if what you
> modify actually does increase power..My 90GT Porsche 928 motor started
> life
> with some 285hp (on a Dynojet chassis dyno at sea level) and ended up (so
> far) with 587 on the same dyno.  But during development, many bulls--t
> avenues were followed and proven to be no gain or even a hp loss, again
> verified on the dyno.  "Seat-O-Pants" impressions are often mistaken, too.
> I made modifications that I would have sworn felt like 20-50 more hp, but
> sometimes were just noise and wishful thinking, when verified at the dyno,
> or with laptimes at a known track.
>  Dyno sessions aren't too expensive or difficult to complete, especially
> since the 'tuner car' market has developed.  There are dyno shops around
> in
> most larger metropolitan  areas where you can get onto the roller for a
> half
> hour and get actual data for a nominal fee.
>  I'd love to see the curves for the various types of conversion motors, to
> actually compare  It's too easy to just 'say'.stuff about how a particular
> motor works..but the figures would be less subjective, if we had some.
>  Don Hanson