I know exactly how you're  feeling Robert.  I had the same epiphany when I
drove a 2.5 Subie in a MultiVan at SmallCar, and again when I drove Paul
Guzyk's 2.2 Carat Automatic here at home.

Aye caramba!

I'd love an opportunity to try a Zetec too.   Anyone?

On 7/28/07, Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> So this is why I say seat-of-the-pants when I
> wrote about my first Zetech Vanagon test drive.
>
> I don't need much in the way of dyno testing to
> make my decision, like most people.
>
> If you go to buy a new car the saleman doesn't
> say "hey , can we toss that on the dyno for you
> today?
>
> No, they say "take it for a test drive".
>
> Robert
>
> 1982 Westfalia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Bob Donalds <donalds1@VERIZON.NET> wrote:
>
> > racers exaggerating HP numbers I cant imagine
> > that
> > when the green flag drops the BS stops
> >
> > I owned and have spent allot of time on both
> > engine and chassis dynos great
> > for tuning BUT most dyno test are FULL throttle
> > and who drives like that
> > besides Brady
> > I also did allot of chassis dyno testing with
> > vanagons inconsistent at best
> > I did have one 84 van with a B Bob 2.1 engine
> > that put out 75 HP at the rear
> > wheels every time I checked it.
> >  that became my base line
> > numbers don't mean sh**
> > every dyno is different some even have
> > Hollywood HP numbers
> >
> > to even feel a differance in a vanagon you
> > would need 10 more HP
> > I like an engine that spins without self
> > destructing whats what I do in my
> > engines make it spin up
> > If you change the shift point 1k and the engine
> > can take it you have
> > something more to work with
> > the Z tech shifts a 6500 RPM screw the factory
> > HP numbers
> > whats the throttle responce like
> > whats the shift point
> > and will it stay together
> >
> > Bob Donalds
> > Bosotn Engine
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson@GORGE.NET>
> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 8:05 AM
> > Subject: Power output of actual vans? (long)
> >
> >
> > > Has anyone actually documented the output of
> > the various engine combos in
> > > vans?  I ask this with a LOT of experience
> > with boasting car owners,
> > > optimistic aftermarket parts vendors,
> > erroneous factory HP figures, etc.
> > > While involved in racing with the Porsche
> > brand, HP was an often
> > > exaggerated
> > > and misrepresented figure, sometimes stated
> > as 'at the crank' sometimes
> > > "at
> > > the wheels" and with all kinds of different
> > 'correction factors' inserted
> > > before the bottom line.  The same motor  in
> > the same chassis would produce
> > > varied numbers on different brand dynos,
> > also.
> > >  So, when we hear figures for all these
> > motor/combos, what, exactly are we
> > > hearing?  Where do the numbers come from?  If
> > someone simply quotes what
> > > the
> > > factory said the power  figures were, for a
> > particular type motor, brand
> > > new,  it may not have much relation to 'that
> > motor' in the van..
> > >  For instance, Porsche, in it's sales
> > verbiage in the '80s,  understated
> > > the HP of the 928 motor by a significant
> > amount. Said  to  have been done
> > > because 911 at that time was the company's
> > designated high performance
> > > model
> > > and they didn't want to confuse their Base,
> > 'The Faithful'   (911s are the
> > > only "real" Porsche)   by offering a Porsche
> > with more acknowledged hp
> > > than
> > > the 911.  And the Dodge Viper's hype gave HP
> > output figures in the 450 hp
> > > range, but they figured it at the crank, not
> > at the wheels..
> > >  So when someone says.."Ha, the X-type
> > conversion motor has 150hp (or
> > > whatever), while the WBX is only 90 or some
> > such, it'd be interesting to
> > > hear where those numbers are coming from.
> > >  Aftermarket 'speed-parts'...First thing done
> > on a racecar during engine
> > > development is to do a 'baseline' dyno run,
> > so you can  see if what you
> > > modify actually does increase power..My 90GT
> > Porsche 928 motor started
> > > life
> > > with some 285hp (on a Dynojet chassis dyno at
> > sea level) and ended up (so
> > > far) with 587 on the same dyno.  But during
> > development, many bulls--t
> > > avenues were followed and proven to be no
> > gain or even a hp loss, again
> > > verified on the dyno.  "Seat-O-Pants"
> > impressions are often mistaken, too.
> > > I made modifications that I would have sworn
> > felt like 20-50 more hp, but
> > > sometimes were just noise and wishful
> > thinking, when verified at the dyno,
> > > or with laptimes at a known track.
> > >  Dyno sessions aren't too expensive or
> > difficult to complete, especially
> > > since the 'tuner car' market has developed.
> > There are dyno shops around
> > > in
> > > most larger metropolitan  areas where you can
> > get onto the roller for a
> > > half
> > > hour and get actual data for a nominal fee.
> > >  I'd love to see the curves for the various
> > types of conversion motors, to
> > > actually compare  It's too easy to just
> > 'say'.stuff about how a particular
> > > motor works..but the figures would be less
> > subjective, if we had some.
> > >  Don Hanson
> >
>
>
>
>
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--
Jake
1984 Vanagon GL
1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
www.crescentbeachguitar.com