Joel,

Thanks for this, good to know. I actually bled the rear again tonight, even though I hadn't
opened anything back there. I guess some air had got past the proportioning valve when I did
the calipers, as there was some there. Pedal is now good and firm, with no "droop". I will
heed your advice and buy a new master cylinder from BD - I see they are only about $65
now. And I'll get some ATE wheel cylinders from autohausaz.com, the only place I can that
lists them by name. I'll already have new clutch master/slave, so I'll plan to do the whole
works when I pull the dash to fix the dead heater fan...  :-)

On 24 Sep 2007 at 20:25, Joel Cort <joel_cort@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

> Shawn,
>
> What I have found when there are mushy brakes (and no fluid leaking) after a
> good bleeding it that the brake master cylinder needs to be replaced.
>
> It is available from the list vendors for about $100 or so and well worth it.
> If your van sit a lot between camping trips, it may not be on the road enough to
> work the brakes and other parts.  The stationary master cylinder and the rubber
> o-rings will eventually decay and leak internally between the front and rear
> piston and cause some mush.
>
> Easy job to do, keep the brake fluid off everything especially the rugs and
> seats.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Joel
> 87 Syncro Transporter (Stella B)
> 89 Syncro Westy (Panama Red)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Raymond Paquette <raymondpaquette@GMAIL.COM>
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 11:37:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Causes of rear brake soft pedal
>
>
> I can't see how air would get in by what you did.  Although I have replaced pads
> (not shoes) and found that the caliper failed soon after-I assume that the new
> pads put the pistons into a different and damaged part of the cylinder.
>
> One way you could test to see if the shoes are somehow retracting would be
> to:
>
> jack up a wheel or both
> press and release the brake pedal
> spin the wheel to get a sense for how much drag or shhh sound you get
> try again later
>
> Used to adjust air brakes using the shhh method.
>
> Ray
>
> On 9/18/07, Shawn Wright <vwdiesels@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for all the suggestions so far... I forgot to mention that did a
> > full
> > brake flush and bleed (as I do every 2 years) at all 4 when I replaced
> > calipers in the spring. I didn't open the rear hydraulics this time, so
> > didn't
> > bleed anything as a result. I will do a quick bleed and see if it helps
> > though.
> > I'm pondering replacing the cylinders anyway, even though they're not
> > leaking. Also, I did adjust manually before putting the drums back on,
> > making as tight as possible without dragging. Pedal feel is good after the
> > first pump - it's just the first pump if the pedal hasn't been used in a
> > while. The parking brake is properly adjusted and works great.
> >
> > I'll bleed tonight and see if anything changes.
> >
> > On 17 Sep 2007 at 22:25, Shawn Wright <vwdiesels@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> >
> > > Tonight I replaced the rear shoes on my '88 Westy, which were last done
> > by
> > > the dealer about 100k km (60k miles), but more than 10 years ago. I have
> > > receipts from the PO showing all new drums, cylinders, shoes, etc were used.
> > > The rear wheel cylinders show a fair bit of corrosion, but no
> > weeping
> > > under the seals, and they do seem to have the springs to prevent
> > creeping, as
> > > they extended slowly on their own when shoes were removed. With
> > everything all
> > > back together, I still have the soft pedal syndrome, where one or more
> > pumps is
> > > required to get a firm pedal. I was hoping this was the rear wheel
> > cylinders
> > > lacking those elusive springs. Front pads and calipers are new in the
> > spring. So
> > > the problem must lie in the booster or the master cylinder, right? Tips
> > on
> > > narrowing this down appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > > Shawn Wright
> > > http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
> > > '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
> > > '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
> >
> >
> > Shawn Wright
> > http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
> > '88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
> > '85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA
> >
>
>
>       __________________________________________________________________________
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>

Shawn Wright
http://members.shaw.ca/vwdiesels
'88 Westy 1.6TD 5 speed
'85 Jetta Diesel 1.6NA