To make a hybrid would be rather simple (to a point!) thing to do in a
Vanagon.  Personally I would leave the rear engine alone and not
install anything back there.  What you need to do is get the front
end from a Syncro and get the electric motor to run on the front
wheels.  You have the whole underside of the van for the engine and
battery storage...

David Marshall

http://www.hasenwerk.ca
http://www.fastforward.ca

Box
4153, Quesnel BC, Canada V2J 3J2

On Thu, October 4, 2007 10:26,
Mark Keller wrote:
> Jim,
>
> I do think that the
smallish engine/ engine compartment sizing that the
> vanagon has
means it is ideally  configured to benefit from a hybrid
>
approach.  In that a hybrid is implemented by using a smaller sized ICE
> to start with means  that Vanagons were somewhat  pre-hybrid
> manufactured.  Cost of impleenting the new technology isn't
necessarily
> a decision point.  It seems worth cruching the
numbers from the
> suppliers listed. The Kta site reference say
$3150.  This not a hybid,
> but does give a rough approximate of
the cost of similiary sized
> componets.  Ie a smaller motor,
>
>  KTA EV Conversion Kit #1...suitable for propelling 500
to 1500 lb.
> motorcycle or ultralight kit car...at speeds up to
55 MPH...48 to 72
> V...basic kit without extras includes: ADV. DC
#K91-4003...CURTIS
> #1209B-6402...CURTIS #PB-6...ALBRIGHT
#SW-180B ...FERRAZ/SHAWMUT
> #A15QS400-4...G.E. #TQD-150...KTA
SWITCHPLATE...WESTBERG #A2C6-30 &
> A2C5-3 (48 V) or A2C5-28
(54-72 V)...DELTEC #MKB-500-50 & MKA-50-50...K
> & W
#BC-20...MAGNECRAFT #W389ACX-9...PRESTOFLEX #4 GA Cable...MAGNA
>
Lugs, Heat Shrink Pieces...10-pos. Barrier Strip...Welding Cable Tool
Kit
>
>  $2750 to $3150
>
> approx.
>
> Ultimately a waterboxer could be hybrid electric with
direct injected
> propane and a  screw supercharger  --that would
be: interesting,
> powerful, economical and clean!
>
> In that flywheel conservation of momentum isn't being practiced by
DIY,
> it may not be ultimately practical in expense or man hours
to complete.
> This following site is somewhat applicable. I
couldn't find a enthusiast
> kit or working model, as in the
ICE-Electric hybrid approach.
>
>
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1978PhDT.........6U
>
> Off
topic, As to marine use efficiency the site is a for pure
>
ICE-Electric setup.  All modern cruise ships use this format, like
> trains do.  They utilized an  A/C motor pod beneath the vessel
for
> propulsion and the ICE diesel in the hull. The reason is ,
from the OSSA
> site explanation on fuel efficiency, I realize
this is marketing
> oriented but then again, we have to "read
around" marketing hype all the
> time. OSSA or Glacier Bay
seems to be the real deal though, if you look
> through their
site.
>
>     " This means that diesel-electric
systems can be much better at
> "self-optimizing" to
accommodate varying loads than are conventional
> systems. At sea,
load conditions change by the trip (number of
> passengers), by
the hour (wind and tide) and by the minute (going up a
> wave or
surfing down it). These variations provide a significant
>
opportunity for fuel savings."
>
> /Seems to me
hybrid would not be a good fit for a marine application,
>
varying
> rpm, load, and regen braking are where the hybrid is
compelling as you
> pointed out. I believe that in our
vans(typically lot's of hwy miles) the
> total thermal efficiency
is going to be low enough that other technologies
> will make more
sense before current hybrid technology for efficiency. For
> me,
because I use my 9 pass. as a daily driver, and it's mostly city
>
miles,
> it might be great from an efficiency standpoint.
From a cost standpoint
> it's
> still really high.
There is another even simpler way to have some of the
> exact same
benefits would mentioned. Good old flywheels. Imagine a monster
>
flywheel with axis of rotation up/down under the van dead center. It
would
> be cool because not only could you use it to store, and
retrieve energy
> like
> a hybrid system, but it would
gyroscopically stabilize the van in the
> correct plane and in
theory would be more efficient itself at storing
> mechanical
energy because there is no transformation required.  Make it as
>
heavy as one of the hybrid battery packs as large in diameter as
possible
> with the weight biased to the outside edge, and spin it
as fast as
> realistically possible and I wonder what kind of
thermal efficiency you
> could reach in city driving./
>

> Jim Akiba
>
> On 10/4/07, Mark Keller
<kelphoto@telus.net> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Hi gang,
>>>
>>> With the
question of making a hybrid a I'm a bit of a neophyte, but In
>>> researching a hybrid install for a marine customer I  came
across a
>>> couple of websites that explain to some of us
why putting an electric
>>> motor on a ICE, internal
combustion engine, can actually improve the
>>> ICE
>>> fuel mileage, and in course have beneficial effects on
emissions. I've
>>> summarized it below and included the
websites at the bottom
>>>
>>> The Basic
benefiting principle is that ICE are not equally efficient
>>> at
>>> converting fuel to usable work at all
RPM ranges.  Most efficient is at
>>> combination of
gearing, 75% throttle and RPM. Least efficient at idle
>>>
and anything less than 75% throttle. Hybrid  Engine controllers
>>> supplement the ICE with the electrical motor at the less
efficient ICE
>>> RPMs, and recover some of the electrical
energy in braking and when at
>>> efficient ICE RPMs.
>>>
>>> The other benefits: ( Inductively
thinking is all I have to go on so be
>>> forewarned).
Engine life would be enhanced, since it's overall load is
>>> reduced by transferring electrical power in demand
situations where the
>>> ICE is not at it's most thermally
efficient RPM range. This "power" is
>>> partly
free, in that the EC, engine controller, recovers electrical
>>> energy by charging the batteries, which is a "braking
effect" on the
>>> vehicle.  Brakes on the vehicle last
longer, since they see less
>>> stopping momentum. You get
the idea.
>>>
>>> The rest of the electrical
power comes from two sources.  When the
>>> engine is at
cruise RPM, aka a efficient thermal RPM and the load on
>>>
the
>>> engine permits, charging of the batteries takes
place.  The EC takes
>>> care of this
"seamlessly".  The other charge is the nightly plug in.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, while none of the above
operations occur at ideal rpms
>>> to
>>> the
power/generation electric motor, or the ICE, a recognizable benefit
>>> does occur. I say this because in a true application, the
ICE would
>>> only
>>> operate at it's optimum
thermal efficient RPM in order to supply the
>>> electric
motor.  This is not completely a windfall though as pound for
>>> pound, the electric motor needed to replace the ICE's
torque is heavy,
>>> some 600lbs.  Nor is a 50kw electric
motor Cheap!
>>>
>>> Another good thing is
that the waterboxer is light at 265lbs and the
>>> engine's
combustion chamber designe is particular efficient at cruise
>>> rpm. Even more so with an updated EC. So in my opinion a
pretty
>>> competitive application of technology to the
waterboxer.
>>>
>>> In another twist I think
that the elusive "more torque" question is
>>>
solved by the electric motor being there to help get extra boost to
>>> move
>>> the vehicle when needed.  This is
subtle but the key is that the torque
>>> boost helps by
getting the waterboxer RPMs up to it's power range.
>>>
This
>>> is important because the engine is so weak at lower
RPMs, I believe we
>>> would see a greater benefit than
other vehilce/engine combinations.
>>>
>>>
Thanks for listening in
>>>
>>> Mark
>>> In order of relevance
>>> Diesel-electric
marine propulsion systems and accessories.
>>> <
>>>
http://www.ossapowerlite.com/tech_library/fuel_efficiency/fuel_efficiency.htm
>>
>>
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> KTA Services Inc. <
http://www.kta-ev.com/>
>>> L.M.C. Manufacturers of
Permanent Magnet DC Motors
>>>
<http://www.lemcoltd.com/performance.htm>
>>> Curtis
Instruments- Instrumentation, motor speed controllers, battery
>>> chargers <http://www.curtisinst.com/>
>>>
>>> DetectorTechnologies.com - Product
Catalog
>>> <
>>>
http://www.detectortechnologies.com/store/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=5
>>
>>
>>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> ASMO Marine
<http://www.asmomarine.com/2005/asmo_uk/00.shtml>
>>>
taylorproductolinecard-bilingual.pdf (application/pdf Object)
>>>
<http://www.taylorproducto.ca/taylorproductolinecard-bilingual.pdf>
>>> http://www.steamboating.net/
>>>
>>> Boat Design Net - the Boat Design and Boat Building Site
>>> <http://boatdesign.net/>
>>> has a
Hybrid forum under the propulsion section.
>>> Boat Design
Net - the Boat Design and Boat Building Site
>>>
<http://boatdesign.net/>
>>
>