Jim

I've often wondered how about this.  Ultimately, you could keep storing and
removing energy from the flywheel as your power needs changed-allowing ICE
to run at a more constant speed.

Seems like a great idea, but I wonder about the gyroscopic effect.  I think
you could end up with some very odd and dangerous struggles with steering
and handling.

Opinions?

Raymond

On 10/4/07, Jim Akiba <syncrolist@bostig.com> wrote:
>
> Seems to me hybrid would not be a good fit for a marine application,
> varying
> rpm, load, and regen braking are where the hybrid is compelling as you
> pointed out. I believe that in our vans(typically lot's of hwy miles) the
> total thermal efficiency is going to be low enough that other technologies
> will make more sense before current hybrid technology for efficiency. For
> me, because I use my 9 pass. as a daily driver, and it's mostly city
> miles,
> it might be great from an efficiency standpoint. From a cost standpoint
> it's
> still really high.  There is another even simpler way to have some of the
> exact same benefits would mentioned. Good old flywheels. Imagine a monster
> flywheel with axis of rotation up/down under the van dead center. It would
> be cool because not only could you use it to store, and retrieve energy
> like
> a hybrid system, but it would gyroscopically stabilize the van in the
> correct plane and in theory would be more efficient itself at storing
> mechanical energy because there is no transformation required.  Make it as
> heavy as one of the hybrid battery packs as large in diameter as possible
> with the weight biased to the outside edge, and spin it as fast as
> realistically possible and I wonder what kind of thermal efficiency you
> could reach in city driving.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
>
>
> On 10/4/07, Mark Keller <kelphoto@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi gang,
> >
> > With the question of making a hybrid a I'm a bit of a neophyte, but In
> > researching a hybrid install for a marine customer I  came across a
> > couple of websites that explain to some of us why putting an electric
> > motor on a ICE, internal combustion engine, can actually improve the ICE
> > fuel mileage, and in course have beneficial effects on emissions. I've
> > summarized it below and included the websites at the bottom
> >
> > The Basic  benefiting principle is that ICE are not equally efficient at
> > converting fuel to usable work at all RPM ranges.  Most efficient is at
> > combination of  gearing, 75% throttle and RPM. Least efficient at idle
> > and anything less than 75% throttle. Hybrid  Engine controllers
> > supplement the ICE with the electrical motor at the less efficient ICE
> > RPMs, and recover some of the electrical energy in braking and when at
> > efficient ICE RPMs.
> >
> > The other benefits: ( Inductively thinking is all I have to go on so be
> > forewarned).  Engine life would be enhanced, since it's overall load is
> > reduced by transferring electrical power in demand situations where the
> > ICE is not at it's most thermally efficient RPM range. This "power" is
> > partly free, in that the EC, engine controller, recovers electrical
> > energy by charging the batteries, which is a "braking effect" on the
> > vehicle.  Brakes on the vehicle last longer, since they see less
> > stopping momentum. You get the idea.
> >
> > The rest of the electrical power comes from two sources.  When the
> > engine is at cruise RPM, aka a efficient thermal RPM and the load on the
> > engine permits, charging of the batteries takes place.  The EC takes
> > care of this "seamlessly".  The other charge is the nightly plug in.
> >
> > In my opinion, while none of the above operations occur at ideal rpms to
> > the power/generation electric motor, or the ICE, a recognizable benefit
> > does occur. I say this because in a true application, the ICE would only
> > operate at it's optimum thermal efficient RPM in order to supply the
> > electric motor.  This is not completely a windfall though as pound for
> > pound, the electric motor needed to replace the ICE's torque is heavy,
> > some 600lbs.  Nor is a 50kw electric motor Cheap!
> >
> > Another good thing is that the waterboxer is light at 265lbs and the
> > engine's combustion chamber designe is particular efficient at cruise
> > rpm. Even more so with an updated EC. So in my opinion a pretty
> > competitive application of technology to the waterboxer.
> >
> > In another twist I think that the elusive "more torque" question is
> > solved by the electric motor being there to help get extra boost to move
> > the vehicle when needed.  This is subtle but the key is that the torque
> > boost helps by getting the waterboxer RPMs up to it's power range.  This
> > is important because the engine is so weak at lower RPMs, I believe we
> > would see a greater benefit than other vehilce/engine combinations.
> >
> > Thanks for listening in
> >
> > Mark
> > In order of relevance
> > Diesel-electric marine propulsion systems and accessories.
> > <
> >
> http://www.ossapowerlite.com/tech_library/fuel_efficiency/fuel_efficiency.htm
> > >
> > KTA Services Inc. < http://www.kta-ev.com/>
> > L.M.C. Manufacturers of Permanent Magnet DC Motors
> > <http://www.lemcoltd.com/performance.htm>
> > Curtis Instruments- Instrumentation, motor speed controllers, battery
> > chargers <http://www.curtisinst.com/>
> >
> > DetectorTechnologies.com - Product Catalog
> > <
> http://www.detectortechnologies.com/store/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=5
> > >
> > ASMO Marine <http://www.asmomarine.com/2005/asmo_uk/00.shtml>
> > taylorproductolinecard-bilingual.pdf (application/pdf Object)
> > <http://www.taylorproducto.ca/taylorproductolinecard-bilingual.pdf>
> > http://www.steamboating.net/
> >
> > Boat Design Net - the Boat Design and Boat Building Site
> > <http://boatdesign.net/>
> > has a Hybrid forum under the propulsion section.
> > Boat Design Net - the Boat Design and Boat Building Site
> > <http://boatdesign.net/>
> >
> >
> >
> > < http://www.taylorproducto.ca/taylorproductolinecard-bilingual.pdf>
> > <http://www.steamboating.net/>
> >
>