I'd be super curious as to *exactly* why additive was put in.

But if this is a mechanic you've known for a while and trust, well
then ignore that suggestion!

:^)

Personally, to pre lube an engine that had been sitting for a while, I
would use recommended oil for a given engine, remove plugs, and spin
it for a while to lube things up.

Just my "shade tree" .02

Neil.

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks Jason....you are confirming everything I think. hydro valves not an
>  issue.
>
>
>  Mechanic put an oil pressure guage on the motor yesterday morning when it
>  was cold. Apparantly the  needle went off the guage. 100lb/in+ Conclusion:
>  high oil pressure forcing the lifters to hold the valves open, giving no
>  compression. ( Scott's initial suggestion!) Mechanics suggested cause:
>  additive he'd put in the oil to ensure good lubrication when engine was
>  first started up.  He's drained & flushed oil, replaced.  Motor running as
>  of yesterday evening. I heard and saw it. Quiet and smooth. OK oil pressure.
>
>  Now, putting my stick on the ice and having a good look around......
>
>  1)  oil pressure relief valve could be sticking when the motor is cold.
>
>  2) too high oil pressure may compromise the oil seals- flywheel and at the
>  timing belt end- anywhere else? Symptoms of this- other than oil dripping
>  out of the bellhousing/timing belt cover ?
>
>  3) is there anything else I should be looking for ?
>
>  Thanks all......
>
>  Bill M
>
>
>
>
>  On 4/15/08, Jason Ewing <uberhare@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > I used an 86 1.6TD with hydro lifters in my 82 diesel van.  Never any
>  > problems with them.  Sounds like the replacement engine has issues.
>  >
>  > Jay
>  >
>  >
>  > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:04 PM, Jake de Villiers <
>  > crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > > Bill, if your 'mechanic' thinks that leaking lifters will cause low
>  > > compression, he has a serious misunderstanding of engine internals and
>  > > should be replaced!
>  > >
>  > > Where did the donor engine come from?  Was it seen to be running well
>  > and
>  > > show good compression then?
>  > >
>  > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Bill MacLachlan <billmacla@gmail.com>
>  > > wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > Thanks for the comments Scott....good thorough reply.
>  > > > I understand that if  compression is lost because a valve is open,
>  > > >
>  > > >   - it's excess oil pressure that's opening the valve, not the angle
>  > of
>  > > >   the lifter.
>  > > >   - Check the oil pressure and the pressure relief valve
>  > > >
>  > > >  Correct?
>  > > >
>  > > > Bill
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > On 4/14/08, Scott Daniel - Shazam <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>  > > > >
>  > > > > He only time hydraulic lifters with an oil or hydraulic problem
>  > could
>  > > > ever
>  > > > > keep an engine from starting is if they get held 'too open' by
>  > > excessive
>  > > > > oil
>  > > > > pressure.  I've seen it and read about it in various makes of cars.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > I'm pretty sure that if they don't get any oil pressure, the valves
>  > > will
>  > > > > still be held open enough to make the engine start and run, but with
>  > > > very
>  > > > > noisy valves.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Waterboxer and all inline 4 VW hyd. Lifters are not related in any
>  > > way.
>  > > > > Nothing to do with each other except the principle under which they
>  > > > > operate.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Hyd. Lifters do not start in VW diesel engines until 86, maybe a
>  > year
>  > > > > earlier in Audi - or something close to this.
>  > > > > 82 diesel vanagon most definitely never had hyd. Lifters.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > I wondered/was concerned about diesel hyd. lifters at 50 degrees
>  > when
>  > > I
>  > > > > did
>  > > > > my first TD engine conversion, but it's not a problem, and
>  > I've  have
>  > > > run
>  > > > > many many thousands of miles with vw diesel inline 4 hyd. Lifters at
>  > > 50
>  > > > > degrees.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > For your situation here, it's  not hard to check the compression,
>  > > > > Or observe the valves being opened and closed with the vale cover
>  > off.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > And if you do think something is going on with the oil and/or air
>  > > > getting
>  > > > > into the hyd. Lifters from the oil pump ........you check the oil
>  > > > > pressure,
>  > > > > ( to make sure it's not excessive, like from stuck pressure relief
>  > > valve
>  > > > )
>  > > > > and for air in the oil from the oil pump ( which I've never heard of
>  > > on
>  > > > a
>  > > > > VW
>  > > > > ) .....if that's going on, then you think about the oil pump itself,
>  > > but
>  > > > > it's extremely unlikely in a VW diesel as far as I know.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Scott
>  > > > > www.turbovans.com
>  > > > >
>  > > > > -----Original Message-----
>  > > > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>  > > Behalf
>  > > > Of
>  > > > > Bill MacLachlan
>  > > > > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:51 AM
>  > > > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>  > > > > Subject: 52 degree Inline 4 hydraulic lifters leaking down
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Hi all...
>  > > > > I have an 82 diesel converted to inline 4  with CIS injection about
>  > > ten
>  > > > > years ago- just before I bought the vehicle.
>  > > > > I've just had a local VW shop install a replacement 1800cc inline
>  > >  motor
>  > > > > in
>  > > > > my van.... I believe they are a good well experienced shop.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > They are having an issue with the replacement motor. If the motor is
>  > > > left
>  > > > > for a few hours, apparantly there is no compression, it won't start
>  > > and
>  > > > > the
>  > > > > mechanic is thinking this is the hydraulic lifters leaking.
>  > > > > My old motor had hydraulic lifters ( well, at least that's what the
>  > > > > sticker
>  > > > > on the valve cover said and I have no reason to believe otherwise)
>  > and
>  > > I
>  > > > > never had an issue with it.
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Here are some questions:
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Has anyone else out there had experience with hydraulic lifters in
>  > I4
>  > > > > setups-  when tilted at 52 degrees?
>  > > > > Are the lifters in a waterboxer  the same as the ones used in an
>  > > inline4
>  > > > ?
>  > > > > Did the 82 vanagon deisel motor use hydraulic lifters? If so were
>  > they
>  > > > the
>  > > > > same as the ones used in more upright deisel motors?
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Is  there anything  I should suggest to the mechanic that would help
>  > > him
>  > > > > get
>  > > > > this thing fixed?
>  > > > >
>  > > > > btw current oil filter is a Mann - the black one - and I think they
>  > > have
>  > > > > 10-40 oil in the motor.
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Thanks all
>  > > > >
>  > > > > Bill M
>  > > > > 82 I4 GL
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > > --
>  > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
>  > > > > Checked by AVG.
>  > > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1375 - Release Date:
>  > > > > 4/12/2008
>  > > > > 11:32 AM
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > > >
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > Jake
>  > > 1984 Vanagon GL
>  > > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>  > > Crescent Beach, BC
>  > > www.crescentbeachguitar.com
>  > > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
>  > >
>  >
>

--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"

http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/