Good points.

And too true.

The speed at which the gutting happens is mind boggling.

Neil

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Jim Felder <jim.felder@gmail.com> wrote:
> I certainly don't think that investment in energy companies is
>  unethical. It is not the individual investors who are driving the
>  train. It is the financial houses with huge positions and the ability
>  to move billions around the world in spit seconds who are creating the
>  bubbles for their own benefit. People who buy the stocks through them
>  are just being used by them. In the 1940s and even later, the
>  inefficiencies of the market probably paralleled the inefficiences in
>  communications and the transfer of money. Everything seemed OK. Today,
>  the guys with the money and the communications have such an unfair
>  advantage over the rest of us that they just clobber and gut any
>  market they want.
>
>  Think back over the last ten years at the targets they picked and
>  attacked: internet, housing, oil and now food.
>
>  I know all about the internet thing because I was in it, up there at
>  Bear Stearns and Goldman Sachs involved in trying to take a company
>  public back in the day. I know how it works because I saw a glimpse of
>  it. It's no more complicated than a waterboxer engine. It's just that
>  most people never get to see it on the inside.
>
>  What's the next target? No one knows. What we do know is whose pocket
>  it will come out of.
>
>  Jim
>
>
>
>  On 4/24/08, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > "nice" quote
>  >
>  > Scary stuff.
>  >
>  > I always recall looking at, or rather staring at (to learn how to read
>  > them) my parents investment statements while settling their estates.
>  > Energy stocks were a part of that portfolio. That portion of the
>  > investment always seemed to do well. That always stuck in my mind.
>  >
>  > The human condition eh? People just can't help themselves. It's a
>  > really tempting thing to invest in oil, natural gas etc. I'm not
>  > saying it's outright wrong to invest in oil, but I have to wonder how
>  > ethical that will be in the coming years. MANY who have no idea what
>  > their investment dollars are funding. Out of sight out of mind = a
>  > clear conscience.
>  >
>  > Crazy thought, but can you imagine if energy stocks were considered
>  > unethical investments? Maybe some firms already on that page. Ha!
>  > Pretty harsh thinking on my part, but given the green movement, I'm
>  > certain there are investors making money, or positioned to make money
>  > from investment vehicles directly tied to green. When I saw hybrids
>  > showing up locally, I knew the green movement would take off and make
>  > someone some money.
>  >
>  > Sounds like a win win to me. Invest in (hopefully ethical) green
>  > technologies.
>  >
>  > But then I'm fond of saying "I know enough to get in trouble"
>  >
>  > --- ;^)
>  >
>  > Neil.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Jim Felder <jim.felder@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > > The way the movers and shakers, literally the 200 mavens of wall
>  > >  street, have had to look for somewhere to put their money to hedge
>  > >  against the exploded housing market they previously created and raped,
>  > >  and they put it in oil.
>  > >
>  > >  These guys and the financial houses they work for make money off
>  > >  speculating on anything, and when they do, they drive the price of it
>  > >  up.
>  > >
>  > >  Oil is getting riskier by the day, so they are taking huge
>  > >  positions--billions and billions of dollars they can transfer in
>  > >  seconds--in food, and you are seeing the results.
>  > >
>  > >  They will not relent, and John Rogers is exactly, precisely, right--we
>  > >  will pay the bills because they control the government.
>  > >
>  > >  To quote former financier Baron Rothschilde, who said back in the
>  > >  1940s, "give me control of a nation's banks and I care not who writes
>  > >  its laws."
>  > >
>  > >  Jim
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >  On 4/23/08, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >
>  > >  > How do the "shakers and movers" in the investment world, figure into
>  > >  > the price of a barrel of oil?
>  > >  >
>  > >  > I can't even begin to imagine how intensely linked the finances and
>  > >  > politics are behind the price of a barrel of oil, but the programme
>  > >  > mentioned above hit on that topic, and the impression I got, was that
>  > >  > some investors, or rather the brokers and brokerage firms etc., have a
>  > >  > large influence on the price of a barrel of oil.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Any insights on the investors/brokerage firms influence on oil prices
>  > >  > anyone?
>  > >  >
>  > >  > Neil.