Definitely, the engines that had trouble water getting into the combustion
chamber, had their insides immaculately clean and the cooling was great.
Zoltan

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Water Injection

> VERY interesting, Greg.
>
> I know some old time mechanics who will put a slug of water through an
> engine, the idea being the water converts to steam and blows the carbon
> loose which in turn is carried out with the exhaust, thus clean pistons
> and cylinder heads.
>
> John Rodgers
> 88 GL driver
>
>
> Greg Potts wrote:
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I tried a water injection experiment in my westfakia last summer. In
>> July my engine threw a rod through the top of the case and I decided
>> that water injection might improve the longevity of the next engine,
>> and improve my milage as well. So I figured I'd give it a try on the
>> replacement engine.
>>
>> I inserted a #22 gauge needle into the vacuum line leading to the
>> vacuum advance on the distributor and connected it to a 2L water
>> bottle with an air stone as a water filter. During idle it wouldn't
>> draw water, but above 2000 rpm there was a steady flow, amounting to
>> about 2L per 50L of gas. I drove about 600 miles this way, and the
>> results seemed to be very good at the time. Temps were good, and the
>> "seat of the pants" dyno said that it was running better than a
>> typical 1697cc engine had any right to.
>>
>> I ran one full tank of fuel through the engine before I put the water
>> injection system on, and the results on the next tank indicated a gain
>> of maybe 10% better gas milage. Unfortunately, that's not outside of
>> my usual standard deviation between fill-ups. I can say that after I
>> installed the water injection I *really* drove the snot out of it.
>>
>> But...
>>
>> After about two weeks the engine seized the rings on the #1 and #2
>> pistons, and totally lost compression during an extended highway run.
>> The only time I've ever needed towing on a road trip. I don't know
>> what the conditions were on that side of the engine, as the CHT gauge
>> was on the #3 cylinder.
>>
>> I am not blaming the water injection for this failure, the simple
>> truth is that this engine was a VWoC rebuild from a 411 that had sat
>> on a shelf for 18 years before being pressed back into service. The
>> only real question is why the rings didn't fail a bit sooner. I found
>> out later that rings are a common failure point on the
>> high-compression 1.7L engines when stressed. I can say that when we
>> pulled it apart the #1 and #2 cylinders were as clean on top as any I
>> have ever seen, so the water must have been getting there.
>>
>> Since that time I have honed and deglazed the cylinders, lapped the
>> valves, re-ringed the pistons and added an oil temp guage as well as a
>> new CHT sender. I also ground off the casting flash from between the
>> fins, sent the injectors out for flow testing and made sure the entire
>> cooling system was fully sealed. It's running very nicely since it was
>> reinstalled in the bus.
>>
>> I did not reinstall the water injection. I have decided I am better
>> off to document at least 5000 miles on this engine before any further
>> experiments. Without any "before" data from this engine, the results
>> can't be much help to anyone.
>>
>> I might try this on my vanagon, but I still need a couple thousand
>> miles of documented fuel consumption before I take this on. I have
>> also considered using MegaSquirt II to control H2O/methanol injection,
>> but the task remains to find water-compatible injectors and pumps if I
>> choose to go that way.
>>
>> Robt Mann on the type2 list has been a proponent of water injection
>> for quite a while now.
>>
>> http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html
>>
>> We also discussed it last year on the FMBC:
>> http://fullmoonbusclub.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?66473.60
>>
>>
>> Happy Trails,
>>
>> Greg Potts
>> 1973/74/79 Westfakia "Bob the Tomato"
>> 1987 Wolfsburg Weekender Hardtop
>> www.busesofthecorn.com
>> www.pottsfamily.ca
>>
>>  a John Rodgers wrote:
>>> During WW II  the Navy F4U Corsair and the Navy Hellcat had  radial
>>> engines that used a water injection system that  enabled those engines
>>> to achieve "Military Power" from the engines or in other words - achieve
>>> substantial power above the engines design capability for sustained
>>> maximum power. This water injection system enabled many a pilot to save
>>> his butt in a dogfight with Japanese pilots.
>>>
>>> Does anyone on The List have any knowledge about this, and whether there
>>> has ever been any effort to try and use the principle to extract more
>>> power for an automotive engine or increase mileage per gallon?
>>>
>>> John Rodgers
>>> 88 GL Driver
>>> Pomgranite
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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