Max, what you said is very true. That's why a $150 pair of good used
heads were suggested. If the used heads do their jobs well then it
will proven worth a set of $200 liners too. My 83.5 suffered the early
Vanagon head gasket leak syndrome. I had VW worked on it under some
warranty coverage. But they put on a set of new heads and did nothing
to the liners. The 1.9 engine had never had all the horse power it should
have. So eventually I did the work to put on a $200 set of Cofap. After
3000 miles of break-in now the 83.5 Westy has all the horses it should have.
It's a huge difference before and after. The condition of the liners
plays a critical role if the engine is going to perform or not.

I guess the bottom block needs to be in good shape for all these to be
invested. The mileage of the engine is a good check point. If it is high
there is a good chance the block needs to be worked on first. I think
it has been said before that 1.9 WBX block is likely to be OK if the mileage
isn't too high.

David

--- Max Wellhouse <dimwittedmoose@cfu.net> wrote:

> I've always been nervous putting new liners pistons and rings on an
> engine with  old rod bearings.  The tight tolerances and extra load
> on the next oldest link in the drive train can easily spell failed
> rod bearing and then the engine is pretty much toast.
>
> My thinking was that I would give the guy a break since he's tight on
> cash. even if the engine only lasts another year, chances oare his
> investment in the heads will not go to waste.  The worst he'll be out
> is the cost of the gasket set.  Dropping another $200 in the jugs and
> then having it blow, that's really going to hurt.
>
> DM&FS
>
> At 11:22 AM 6/12/2008, David Kao wrote:
> >$150 for a pair of used but in good condition heads is sure a good
> >alternative while a new pair costs anywhere from $800 - $1000.
> >As long as there are no cracks you can do a good valve job on them
> >yourself and they will work very well for many more years to come.
> >
> >If you still have some budget after spending the $150 you may want
> >to consider a new liner set from Cofap. This has proven to be critical
> >to my engine I worked on last year. Before I replaced the liners my
> >83.5 was powerless and consumed oil. It still had fairly reasonable
> >gas mileage but strangely enough that it was very poor in climbing
> >any hills.
> >
> >I pulled the engine, did a valve job myself and put in a new set of
> >liners. After 3k - 4k miles of breaking-in the engine is back to
> >normal. It went to Yosemite and back last month and averaged 21.5
> >MPG. It runs entirely different from before the engine work. My cost
> >was well below $500 if I remember it correctly.
> >
> >My point is while you had the heads off take the opportunity to replace
> >the liners. It was available on eBay for around $200. I saw it once at
> >$125 plus shipping and it was a new Cofap set. You will need a gasket
> >set for around $100 too.
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >--- Max Wellhouse <dimwittedmoose@CFU.NET> wrote:
> >
> > > If you can be a wekek or two patient, I'll have a good set of used
> > > heads  I'd let go for $150.  That would give you some financial room
> > > to do a valve job if you wanted.  I feel for you as I've been there
> > > and done that.
> > >
> > > DM&FS
> > >
> > > At 05:07 AM 6/11/2008, Frank Condelli wrote:
> > > >In a message dated 10/06/2008 10:10:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > > >LISTSERV@GERRY.VANAGON.COM writes:
> > > >
> > > >I just  pulled the heads off of my 84 westy (first time to pull
> > heads off any
> > > >  car)
> > > >I did it with the engine still in,
> > > >the piston sleeves  would not come off so i pulled them out, 2
> > with each head.
> > > >Once i  beat the sleeves off with a wooden block and a hammer, i noticed a
> > > >hair line  cracks between all 4 sets of valves.
> > > >
> > > >sooooo... the question  is,
> > > >where do i get new or rebuilt heads for the lowest  price.
> > > >cause this sucks and i don't have much money.
> > > >let  me know,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Shawn,  the heads may be good, the best way to find out is to
> > get them to a
> > > >machine shop  and have them leak tested.  If the cracks are
> > leaking they will
> > > >declare  them scrap.  If the valves are leaking they will reseat
> > or replace
> > > >them.  I have new AMC heads listed on my _Vanagon Items Forsale_
> > > >(http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/sales.htm)  webpage  > Cylinder head,
> > > >1.9/2.1, AMC, 1001, 025
> > > >101 065  -   $475.00.  If your gonna keep that engine and that van
> > > >for any good
> > > >length  of time I would highly recommend you install two new AMC heads -
> > > >UNLESS - the  bottom end is near the end of it's life.   NOW - how
> > > >you gonna get
> > > >the  cylinders back on the pistons without breaking the rings
> > ?  I just know
> > > >your gonna ask that question next.  That is tricky to do with the
> > > >engine  still
> > > >in the van.  The right way is to remove the piston pins which entails
> > > >removing lots of cooling tubes and the waterpump as the pistons are
> > > >first  inserted
> > > >into the barrels then attached to the rods.  Doing that under
> > the  van is not
> > > >easy.  The other way is to find or make some sort of ring  compressor that
> > > >will compress the rings to get the barrels on then be able to  extract the
> > > >compressor - GOOD LUCK !   AND, are you gonna replace the  rings
> > > >while your at it ?
> > > >Then you need to hone the cylinders.  Have  you checked the
> > cylinders to see
> > > >if they are within spec or have become oval as  75% of the ones
> > I have checked
> > > >?  If they are oval then trying to get  new rings to seat will
> > not work very
> > > >well.  You'd be better off using the  old rings or getting a set of new
> > > >pistons and cylinders - now your into the big  bucks !
> > > >
> > > >Cheers,
> > > >
> > > >Frank  Condelli
> > > >Almonte, Ontario, Canada
> > > >'87 Westy & Lionel Trains (_Collection for sale_
> > > >(http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/trainsal.htm) )
> > > >_Frank Condelli &  Associates_
> > (http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/busindex.html)
> > > >- Vanagon/Vanagon Westfalia Service in the Ottawa Valley
> > > >_Vanagon Stainless Steel Exhaust  Systems_
> > > >(http://members.aol.com/Fkc43/exhaust.htm)
> > > >_BusFusion_ (http://members.aol.com/BusFusion/bfhome.htm)  a VW Camper
> > > >camping event, Almonte, ON, June 12 ~ 15,  2008
> > >
>
>