just finished my first year of environmental studies at Slippery Rock
University of Pennsylvania, so "yes" (in a word).

-Craig
'85Gl

On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:51 PM, Jake de Villiers <
crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:

> Craig, you're the kid who just graduated from high school right?
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 7:44 PM, craig cowan <phishman068@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> We just picked up a Volvo 850 (1997 GLT) with only 20 thousand miles on
>> it.
>> A real gem!
>> It manages to pull 33-35mpg on the highway, and is FASSSSTTTTTT.
>>
>> However of the list you listed, my money is on the "old" R32. They're not
>> that old. Last year, the dealership I was working for managed to sell a
>> few
>> low mileage ones (under 20K miles) for $20K or less. The new ones, are not
>> the same....
>> But the "Old" ones, are just SPECTACULAR. I always say its the fastest
>> feeling car i've ever jumped into (And i've driven more than my fair share
>> of exotic super cars). They just feel, ideal. I don't know on the gas
>> mileage, but thats the car i'd be buying, especially if you needed AWD. I
>> think it's the best valued sleeper car on the market.
>>
>> I recently had a chance to drive some long trips in a few different subaru
>> models. I must say, i hated them. The engines are great, but the interior
>> was just rubbish in my mind. I couldn't manage to get comfortable at all,
>> and everything felt like i was going to break it.
>>
>> I do dig some of the volvos on the market, and the BMW 3's are NICE, but
>> the
>> bucks could be the problem there. Same with the Benz.
>>
>> My reccomendation:
>> Stop shopping for a new car.
>> Ya i'm sure i have the least experience of everyone on the list in this
>> department (quite literally), but "WHY?" Why buy new? "Because i'm the one
>> breaking it in" or something of that nature....
>> Well i'm sorry to tell you, new cars rarely have 0 miles on them. They've
>> been on test drives, driven around the lot day in and day out by
>> uneducated
>> highschool kids with muddy shoes, and the value just doesn't make sense! I
>> have seen first hand that it just makes too much sense to buy a car a few
>> years old, maybe 3 or 4 years old, with say 30K miles or less. Odds are,
>> it
>> will cost you LITERALLY half of what it would be new. And it's still "A
>> new
>> model" vehicle, with low miles.....
>> I also like to see it from an environmental standpoint. I could go out
>> tommorow and use my College loans that i loath to someday pay back, and
>> purchase a 2008 Toyota Prius. I'm not going to go into a long rant about
>> how
>> they really "DON'T" Get the 100mpg that people dream of or whatever and
>> are
>> really only "Slightly" better than a conventional vehicle, but i wont.
>> I'll
>> state instead the problem with their sales (From an environmental
>> standpoint). Everyone says "hey, i can save the world if i just trade in
>> this old Clunker F150 with it's 200K miels, and buy a Prius!". Well lets
>> pretend for a second that your F150 gets 15mpg combined driving, and the
>> Prius gets 50 mpg (again, pretend). Keeping the old ford as upposed to
>> buying the new car means that thats one less car that needs to be
>> manufactured (Energy costs, Material costs, pollution costs, etc etc etc
>> in
>> production), and one less car that needs to be shreaded and sent to the
>> fill
>> (Waste). So in so many ways, your really killing the environment by buying
>> that hybrid. I was always told that the most ecologically friendly thing
>> you
>> can do is recycle, as in making an existing product work in a new light
>> and
>> for longer. This applies to automobiles as well.
>> And ya, you'll save so much money with the fuel improvements of the Prius
>> over the F150, but how many years and miles do you have to drive it to
>> justify the $30K you could save, and just put right into the fuel tank?
>> Give
>> me $30K in gas, and i won't care what my fuel mileage is.......
>>
>> If you need an upgrade, buy "lightly used". Let someone else loose their
>> money on the New car, and save the planet in the process (though keeping
>> the
>> corado would help more.....).
>>
>> Just my thoughts. It's friday. Please, let's not hear the terrible Pmails
>> about how i'm worse than Hitler, my views are wrong, and that young people
>> just shouldn't talk.....
>> I'm sick of that.
>>
>> Whatever it is you do, you'll do because it's what you wanted to do, not
>> because of what any one person says. Make your own decision, and try not
>> to
>> believe the salesmen.....
>> comparing apples to oranges can be hard sometimes, but the fruit salad
>> created in the end, sure is delicious.
>>
>> -Craig
>> '85GL
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 10:08 PM, Stuart MacMillan <macgroup@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Kim,
>> >
>> > 4 wheel or all wheel drive and good mileage are mutually exclusive.
>> > Friction is what all cars are working against, and that includes
>> mechanical
>> > and air friction.  The more mechanical stuff you put power through, the
>> > lower the gas mileage.
>> >
>> > If you really need a 4x4 or AWD, then get it, but expect much lower
>> > mileage.
>> > A front wheel drive car, or a rear engine van, is almost as good in most
>> > road driving situations in snow.
>> >
>> > Check out the Scion xB.  I have the first generation, and the current
>> model
>> > has a bigger engine (with poorer mileage), and it may be the best
>> overall
>> > car I've ever owned in terms of interior space, performance,
>> reliability,
>> > and mileage (28-33mpg on regular gas). But, you have to like to quirky
>> > look!
>> >
>> > Stuart
>> > '97 EVC
>> > 2006 Scion xB
>> > 1965 MGB
>> > And many others, including an '84 Vanagon Westy and a '68 Westy.  Both
>> of
>> > which did great in the snow.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> > Kim Brennan
>> > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 6:00 PM
>> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> > Subject: Pondering new commuter car (FRIDAY ONLY TOPIC)
>> >
>> > So, I was cruising back from work in my Corrado (automatic) and
>> > realized that I probably really should start thinking about a
>> > different commuter car. My Corrado has been nicked several times (and
>> > repaired) and some of it's wiring chewed on by animals (and repaired).
>> > But...15 years and a few things are beginning to add up (vents spew
>> > out the remains of the foam rubber, cruise control doesn't work, and
>> > with 80K miles on it, I probably should be getting a timing belt.)
>> >
>> > So I decided to browse the new car market a bit. What I want is a
>> > sporty looking little car, preferably with 4 wheel drive, manual that
>> > gets decent gas mileage (my Corrado get about 22mpg, though I've
>> > gotten as much as 30 mpg on flat terrain (MD Eastern Shore). So
>> > something between 24-30+ mpg would be what I'm shooting for. Manual by
>> > preference, but auto tolerable. All for $30K. (Dream on....)
>> >
>> > Jag X-Type would have been nice, but they discontinued it.
>> >
>> > The VW Eos is intriguing, but the looks (inside and out) aren't quite
>> > right, plus I'm not sure you can get 4wd with it.
>> > The VW R32, I can't get over the revised looks (which I hate). I took
>> > me a while to like the Golf 4, but this new style is just plain ugly
>> > in my opinion.
>> >
>> > Volvo C70 is similar (hardtop convertible)
>> >
>> > Audi A4/S4/RS4. Pricey. and the fuel economy is pretty bad. The TT's
>> > styling leaves me wanting more.
>> >
>> > Lotus Elise/Exige. Snifty, but no 4wd (and even more pricey).
>> >
>> > Subaru WRX STI. Hmm, revised looks I like. 4 door with a fairly roomy
>> > rear seat. Subaru has improved their interiors a lot since I last
>> > looked. But the fuel economy isn't up to snuff (23 hwy on the
>> > 2.5turbo). Might have to consider one of the lesser WRX models, though
>> > I like the styling on the STI better.
>> >
>> > Mitsu Lancer Evolution. Even poorer fuel economy
>> >
>> > Looks like the Mazdaspeed isn't offered with 4wd in the U.S. of A.
>> >
>> > BMW 328xi BMW had lovely styling in the 90s. They must have hired a
>> > lot of ex-Japanese auto-stylers in recent years. Not pretty. They also
>> > get you on all the lovely add-on packages, otherwise the base models
>> > are fairly affordable ($35K). Unfortunately there is no 135 model with
>> > all wheel drive.
>> >
>> > Mercedes C300 4matic. Again, base model (black paint/black non-leather
>> > interior) is only $35K. Everything else starts upping the price tag,
>> > sigh.
>> >
>> > Porsche Carrera 4? Way too expensive.
>> >
>> > Mini? Isn't my idea of sporty
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jake
> 1984 Vanagon GL
> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> Crescent Beach, BC
> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27