Don't confuse the issue with facts. Obviously there is a method of cracking
water that produces positive entropy. We're just not smart enough to see it.

Mike

On 7/13/08 4:56 PM, "David Beierl" <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET> wrote:

> At 06:38 PM 7/13/2008, miguel pacheco wrote:
>> Uhm, read on, the O2 thing is no longer an issue..............
>> Possible or not, it looks like a fun project.
>
> I've got one question, in two* parts.
>
> A: How much energy does it take to electrolyze the water to H and O?
> B: How much energy do you get back by burning the stuff?  Is it as
> much as you spent to make it?  Hint: No, it isn't.
> C: What's the efficiency of the gasoline --> mechanical -->
> electrical cycle that generates the current to electrolyze the
> water?  Guessing 30% in the engine times 80% in the alternator... :-(
> D: Where does the energy come from to do this?  Hint:  The Gasoline.
>
> *Our THREE main weapons are surprise, fear, ruthless efficiency and
> fanatical devotion to the Pope!
>
> TANSTAAFL.  The three laws of thermodynamics say you can't win, you
> can't break even, and you can't get out of the game.  There's no
> question that you suffer a net loss of energy by hydrolyzing water
> and then burning the products, made worse by the various
> inefficiencies attendant on generating the electricity.  So *IF* this
> method works at all, it has to be by somehow increasing the
> efficiency of the Otto engine cycle by a considerable amount, i.e.
> getting considerably more mechanical output from somewhat less
> thermal input.  AFAIK the only remaining area for large improvements
> in recovery of mechanical effort from the thermal cycle involve
> raising the operating temperature of the engine which is currently
> constrained by materials (Smokey Yunick once hoped, maybe still does,
> to build a ceramic engine that would run continuously red-hot for
> just this reason).
>
> So what am I missing?  Help me out here...
>
>
> --
> David Beierl - Providence RI USA -- http://pws.prserv.net/synergy/Vanagon/
> '84 Westy "Dutiful Passage," '85 GL "Poor Relation"