The 70's Rabbit that got 50mpg or more wasn't a gas one; it was a
stripped, excruciatingly-slow, noisy, vibrating diesel one.
  The bare-bones, 'relatively-slow', standard gas ones got about 32 mpg;
about the same that the high-tech, heavier, faster, fully-loaded ones do
now.  It seems to me that you're 'remembering' things as better than they
really were.

Mike B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "craig cowan" <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: Are Today's Young People Mechanical Nitwits?

> Well i feel like chiming in...... as a young person.
>
> I have to both agree with your guys, and disagree. It seems the general
> decision here so far has been that young people as a whole have lost the
> bulk of their mechanical knownhow that  used to be passed down, and that
> as
> a result cars have been built without being adventagous to the established
> principle of fixing your own car. Well these are both valid points, and
> there is a great deal of truth in this argument, but at the same time i
> feel
> the need to disagree.
>
> When i was 16 i purchased my vanagon, i couldn't drive a stick (heck i
> couldn't drive.), i was recovering from a severe car crash (and not well),
> and i had essentially no money. I was of course, unemployed (unable to
> work), and i must say, the bus was a WRECK. Well I've come a long way, and
> my bus is very happy now. I've rebuilt the engine, the coolings system,
> the
> brakes, the clutch system, and a whole slue of various other bits here and
> there (Not to mention adding a full westfalia interior). I've learned
> alot,
> but not necessarily from any one person....
> I've had help from many local vanagon friends and i can't thank them
> enough
> for the lessons they've helped me with.....but i don't feel i couldn't
> have
> done it without any one person....
> I think that's the problem with the whole conversation we're having;
> Everyone has ONE person to thank for all their mechanical skills. Well i'm
> sorry, that's just not true. We as humans are curious creatures with an
> internal desire to act, and as such I feel it's only human nature to make
> a
> decision to get something done. While the decision has become
> subconciously
> imbedded in today's youths (and quite a few generations older than me i
> might add!) that acting can be as simple as "Taking it to the
> professionals". We still have the desire to accomplish, and you'd be
> suprised just how much any young person really does know about mechanics
> just from observation, but the sociological impact of "disposable" is what
> has resulted in the problem we face. I had a professor that once said
> "There
> is No 'Away'. Show me where 'Away' is. You cannot throw anything away, as
> it's always SOMEWHERE". Well here is where the problem begins... Every
> aspect of the way the world lives today (Not just the youth) perpetuates
> the
> idea of "AWAY". We drink water out of disposable bottles, we replace
> computers and cell phones every few years as a new generation progresses,
> and Cars have some kind of "wear limit" that no one can quite define. You
> would not believe how many people twice or 3 times my age have come up to
> me
> when talking about cars and said something along the lines of "ya, but it
> has 90K miles on it....its getting up there" or "Ya, but it has 190K miles
> on it.....". My answer to them is and always will be "SO?" Does it say
> somewhere that it WILL stop at 100K miles? Why do you reallly want to
> replace it anyway? There's nothing wrong with it, it's not even out dated,
> it has all the features of the newest vehicles.....if you want to throw
> your
> money away fine, but untill it give s you problems, that's when it's worn
> out.
>
> Our society of disposability and "AWAY" is what i feel really has resulted
> in the modular and "high tech" vehicles of today. Try convincing most
> people
> of that though..... They all feel we've made such huge leaps foward in
> transportation technology....but i will always present the following
> argument:
> In the '70's VW made a small 2 door hatchback vehicle that was affordable
> and utilitarian, marketed to the masses as "The Rabbit" that got 50mpg (or
> more). In 2008 VW is producing a small 2 door hatchback vehicle that is
> ment
> to be affordable and marketed to the masses, but would struggle to get
> 30mpg. WOW. What a technelogical advancement towards practicality!!!!
> (yes,
> i know the holes in this argument, "They're not the same vehicle" Etc)
>
> It's simple enough for me to say truthfully that there is more than just
> hope for the youth of today. Last year a girl i barely knew, through a
> mutual friend, contacted me and said she'd like to thank me for getting
> her
> interested in vintage VW's. She hung out in my bus once, and decided to
> pursue her dream of buying a beetle! So at that point we became better
> friends, and i've been helping her to mechanically master her '74
> autostick
> superbeetle.....HELP. I don't teach. I won't even do it for her unless
> she's
> WAY off, but i show up, tell her to "just replace the front brake
> cylinder",
> and provide tools. When she's goign to mess up, sometimes i let her. We
> can
> fix it later...
> We've had a great summer of working on the beetle, and shes' doing alot of
> the work on her own now. Remember what i said way up there about
> confidence
> being the problem? Once the decision has been made (as decision making
> creatures) that progress must be made, it's just a matter of providing the
> tools to do it......the knowledge will come in "doing". We cannot just
> give
> up on these youth. Where do you expect them to learn? You're just throwing
> your knowledge "AWAY" (But remember, there is no Away. So someone, will
> pick
> up on it).
>
> I firmly believe that when the world gets struck by whatever it will be
> struck by, and the framework of our society is broken down, there will
> only
> be a few people such as myself that will be able not just to remember and
> reinvent the wheel, but to find a practical application for it again and
> continue to develop it. This is and always will be my intention. To be
> able
> to fix the world when it breaks.
>
> -Craig
> '85GL (Now WESTY)
> Younger than my bus....
>
> On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Allan Streib <streib@cs.indiana.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> "Don Hanson" <dhanson@GORGE.NET> said:
>>
>> > Young people today (especially in the USA) don't need look very closely
>> at
>> > life to know that those who do stuff with their hands, as in "the
>> > Trades"
>> > are now mostly living  below poverty level.
>> >  Remember those professions?  "Tradesmen"?  You know, Carpenters,
>> > Electricians, Plumbers, Mechanics, Painters..etc?.  Not "Happening" any
>> > more. Learning how to do something like fix a car or hang a door...That
>> is
>> > considered a waste of time and beneath a "real person"..All the trades
>> seem
>> > to be handled by the illegals now, because they are jobs "Americans"
>> won't
>> > do any more (for the money that's being paid, anyways)
>>
>> Um, you live in a different universe than I do.  Some of the most
>> well-to-do people I know are electricians and plumbers.  I'm talking
>> six-figure income, lavish homes, and working when they want to, for the
>> most part.  Well above my income as a software developer.  If any of my
>> kids don't want to go to college, I'd definitely steer them to
>> electrical or plumbing vocational training.  These professions are not
>> going anywhere soon.
>>
>> Allan
>>