Great post Loren --- I'm a big Robert Heinlein fan too --- my Dad was  born
on a dirt farm in the Great Depression and was educated as an emgineer ---
the combination of the 2 meant that there was nothing that couldn't be fixed
or made --- and I learned a that at his side while 'holding this here' and
'ok give me the sidecutters' --- also learned beside my grandfather farmer
who could and did fix anything --- usually with bits and pieces from the
junk pile beside the tool shed. Sad thing is that I learned very little
about cars and engines --- but the 'can do' attitude I learned has helped me
to learn a whole bunch --- with the help of this list over almost 10 years.
As far as I'm concerned it's more an attitude than anything else. I expect
myself to fix and understand anything that's broken --- my kids go instantly
to 'buy a new one'. Great thread -- and I'm astonished how long it has
gotten --- but I'm not making it any shorter am I.

Cheers,
Doug

On 8/15/08, Loren Busch <starwagen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This got very long, hit delete if in a hurry this morning....
>
> I've been following this thread (that started yesterday) with great
> interest.  I decided to wait till Friday to jump in because of the little
> Vanagon content but don't take that wrong, I think the subject and the
> thread that has evolved is pertinent to our interests and endeavors.
>
> So, why can some of us understand the working  of a motor vehicle and even
> work on them while others don't and can't?  I think just about everything
> that I understand about the past (I just turned 69) and the current society
> and maybe even the future has already been said in this thread by the time
> I'm writing this. But I want to emphasize several points that have been
> made, especially about how our fathers and grandfathers saw things and
> dealt
> with them and how that affects us today.
>
> The fathers and the grandfathers of many on this list were raised in what
> was essentially a rural America, either on a farm or in a farm town and
> community.  Especially in the West.  And they had lived through the Great
> Depression where you only survived if you could do it yourself and they
> came
> out of the depression with a strong sense of how important every penny
> could
> be. Before WW2 the majority of the population of the US was not in the
> cities, it was rural.  There were no 'suburbs', especially out West.  And
> that meant you did it yourself.  That's the way people survived.  And when
> it came to motor vehicles we were talking Ford and Chevy and John
> Deere.  And
> they were very basic machines.  The major (and I mean major) improvements
> in
> wheels, tires, suspension, steering, engines and transmissions were things
> of the '50's and later.  A couple of years ago I walked into a friends auto
> repair shop and there sat a '39 Pontiac (I believe it was a Pontiac, could
> have been a Packard, not important) that my friend maintained for a local
> collector.  Front suspension was King Pins, no ball joints, leaf springs
> and
> no shock absorbers!!  And a flat head straight 8 under the hood.  Since
> virtually every male had grown up with tools in his hands maintaining such
> vehicles was second nature to the original owners. Now move ahead nearly 70
> years and think about the complexity of the vehicles today.  But also think
> about what has been gained in performance and durability.  Even in the
> 1960's a car with 50,000 miles on it was suspect but today we think nothing
> of driving vehicles with over 100,000 miles on them.  And since I just
> mentioned the '60's, let me make some comments on the so called 'Golden
> Age'
> of the muscle car.  In 1968 I spent most of that year selling cars for a
> Chrysler-Plymouth (RIP) dealer.  I had a chance to drive, at least once,
> virtually every muscle car of the time.  They had power but they were, in
> general, pigs to drive.  Sure they could do 120 mph on the straight but for
> God sake don't try to go around a curve at 60 or even change lanes above
> 80.
> The suspensions on virtually all were way, way under engineered for the
> power they had.  For those that never had the experience imagine a Vanagon
> with worn shocks, factory springs and passenger tires.  That's what most of
> those Muscle Cars felt like from the factory.
>
> When I was growing up most of the fathers in the neighborhood (good upscale
> middle class) were in the 'trades' one way or another.  If they weren't
> carpenters or plumbers or such they had been at one time in their lives and
> had moved on to a related job.  They either used tools for a living or
> their
> customers and clients did.  My father was a machinist, all his life.  I
> grew
> up in a machine shop, either where he worked or in our basement and garage.
> Big lathe, small mill, big drill press, welding equipment, and tools,
> tools,
> tools. The rule was simple, use the right tool for the job.  If you don't
> have the right tool, make it. Only if you don't have it or can't make it do
> you go out and buy it (see references above to Great Depression and living
> on a farm) but, my dad hated woodwork.  I don't know why but he hated doing
> any carpentry.  I guess I inherited (or got by osmosis) his mechanical
> skills.  If it's mechanical I've never been afraid of it.  Especially if
> made of metal.  When younger I'd tackle anything, tear it down, fix it, and
> put it back together. And that included my cars.  But then I reached a
> point
> in later life where I was able to make a trade, my money for a mechanics
> time.  My time with my family was worth more to me than having those
> dollars
> in my pocket. So I quit doing my own wrenching. And that is the decision
> that many in the last couple of generations have made.  In the quite
> affluent society that has evolved in the US over the last 50 years fewer
> and
> fewer people have fathers that take a tool box to work.  And the trade of
> dollars for time has become the norm; we go to specialists for most things
> today. I still do the basics and have done a lot of mods to my Westy but
> any
> real work goes to a mechanic.  And yes, I pay close attention to Larry
> Chases Repair Shop Reviews.
>
> So, should the younger generation learn how a motor vehicle works?
> Absolutely.  Should they understand the basics of maintenance?
> Absolutely.  Should
> they learn to use basic tools? Yes, yes yes. Should they be doing engine
> swaps?  Now that is another level of involvement, a choice to be made by
> the
> individual. But they should have enough knowledge to understand what is
> involved.
>
>
>
> The quote below sums it up for me, from the famous Lazarus Long (though we
> should add "Troubleshoot a Vanagon FI System" to the list.)
>
>
>
> A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher
> a
> hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
> build
> a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate,
> act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
> computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
> Specialization is for insects.
>

--
http://www.dougalcock.com