My guess is that not too people doing engine conversions are Registered
Importers who have to get vehicles tested and certified for California on a
regular basis?

That's probably why it's not well known.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:02 AM
To: Jeff; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions

Hi Jeff,
I've been around California smog issues and smog ref's and engine
conversions a fair bit, like since the 1980's at least, if not before that
even. .
This is the first time I've heard that 'if you are willing to spend $ 3,000
for lab testing, ANY emissions-legal engine conversion can get passed."

Independent labs certified to do such work in Ca, of course, I imagine.
but ..........what ? you just call up one of these labs, ask for an
appointment, leave the vehicle with them for a while and be ready to pay
their fee in the end, or what exactly ?

One would think, giving the random nature of getting an OBD-II engine
conversion through a smog ref .........giving how 'iffy' that it, that there

are a few people with really large sums invested in their Syncro's or
whatever..............that would very willing to invest another $ 3K for a
'sure thing' .......for a 100 % LEGAL , 'for real' certification.

so, how come this isn't better known ? or practiced ?
One would think, that after a decade of dealing with Subaru engine
conversions, being on the subaruvanagon list etc..............
this would have come to light before now.
what say you ?    Like say some more so we know this is really the real
deal, as it's sure odd it's not been well-talked about prior to now.
thanks, Scott
www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions

> Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing... my point is that any
> engine conversion that meets California emissions standards can be
> certified
> as California legal by the test lab.
>
> This is not for a kit, it is a single install in a single vehicle.  The
> next
> time you do the same conversion, it would have to go to the lab for
> testing
> and certification again.
>
> It is basically the same procedure that is performed on every vehicle that
> is imported into California.  It doesn't matter what engine is in the
> vehicle, only that it passes the lab test.
>
> If it passes the lab test, it's good to go...
>
> Obviously, this would get expensive, but it is absolutely true.  This is
> not
> conjecture, it is what we do for a living.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim Akiba
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:37 PM
> To: Jeff
> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
> Conversions
>
> It's still false.  The statement "Any "clean" engine conversion can be
> certified as legal in California"  can only be true if it is also the
> case that it is not possible to have a "clean" engine conversion and
> have it declined for certification in CA. Since it is the case that
> having a clean engine conversion *alone* is no guarantee to getting
> the BAR sticker, the statement is false.
>
> I know what you mean, but you can't speak in universals about it,
> that's the crux of the problem.
>
> Jim Akiba
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jim,
>>
>> It is absolutely true.
>>
>> I think you are confusing my "certified as legal" as being the same as an
>> EO.  That's not what I said.  My comment was that any clean engine
>> conversion (not a kit) can be tested and labeled as meeting California
>> emissions.  This is a "one off" test and is only good for that particular
>> installation.
>>
>> Assumptions always cause confusion....
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Jim Akiba
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:02 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> Conversions
>>
>> This is not true Jeff, I don't know where you got this impression. The
>> CARB would not even prescribe which of the two types of lab testing
>> needed to be done via the application process. Rose Castro told me
>> personally that if the engine came from an OBDII vehicle they defer to
>> the BAR and nothing can be done through CARB to obtain an EO. They
>> will not even allow you to get to the point of submitting the lab
>> results.  Show me an OBDII conversion that is legal in CA and you'll
>> be onto something, but until then nothing has changed.
>>
>> Jim Akiba
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Any "clean" engine conversion can be certified as legal in California...
>> IF
>>> you are willing to pay for the testing.  Unfortunately, the testing adds
>>> about $3k to the cost.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of
>>> Don Hanson
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:12 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: John Wessels Glori's Import offering Zetec & Subie engine.
>> Was:
>>> now..ignore the small stuff..?
>>>
>>> I've been sort of following this thread.  Since I don't actually live in
>>> California, I probably shouldn't chime in, but I do spend winter months
>>> there and I've been around the Calif. beaurocracy some.  It's scary that
>>> other states justify stuff by pointing at California, also.
>>>
>>>  I have some friends who have an engine conversion company for mostly
>>> Porsches. They were forced out of California over to Las Vegas to do
>>> business.  Renegade Products.  They supply conversions for putting Chev
>> V8s
>>> into 944s and 911s.  The owner even has an LT-1 Vette motor in his 914.
>>> (
>>> ~500hp in a 2000 lb roller skate!)
>>> They got so frustrated with the CARB, the DMV and all,  that they just
>>> packed up and moved to Nevada and now do just fine out there.  Even
> though
>>> the conversions they sold tested much cleaner than the 80's-era turbo
>>> Porsche motors they were replacing, they were not 'allowed' by Cali..  I
>>> know many of their customers have their vehicles now registered in
> Nevada,
>>> also.   ...
>>>
>>
>>