Gee... I apologize for leaving out one word.

However, you know the old saying about people who live in glass houses?
Your emails are normally filled with spelling and grammatical errors, so I
wouldn't start throwing those stones around...

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:52 PM
To: Jeff; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions

I suspect you don't 'preef rood' your notes before sending them.
I think you are saying .............
your guess is that not too many people doing conversions are Registered
Importers......
which you are, I assume, and thus you are famililar with these testing labs.

thanks, that makes sense.
So how many times have you paid the $ 3K to get proper lab testing and
certification done ?
and if it is really ANY properly done with proper low emissions engine
conversion .......
there would be a lot of people willing to pay that 3,000 extra to have it
done right and 'for sure.'
Not being sneaky or 'not quite fully kosher' is worth a lot to some people.
Thanks for addressing my question, btw.
scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions

> My guess is that not too people doing engine conversions are Registered
> Importers who have to get vehicles tested and certified for California on
> a
> regular basis?
>
> That's probably why it's not well known.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:02 AM
> To: Jeff; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
> Conversions
>
> Hi Jeff,
> I've been around California smog issues and smog ref's and engine
> conversions a fair bit, like since the 1980's at least, if not before that
> even. .
> This is the first time I've heard that 'if you are willing to spend $
> 3,000
> for lab testing, ANY emissions-legal engine conversion can get passed."
>
> Independent labs certified to do such work in Ca, of course, I imagine.
> but ..........what ? you just call up one of these labs, ask for an
> appointment, leave the vehicle with them for a while and be ready to pay
> their fee in the end, or what exactly ?
>
> One would think, giving the random nature of getting an OBD-II engine
> conversion through a smog ref .........giving how 'iffy' that it, that
> there
>
> are a few people with really large sums invested in their Syncro's or
> whatever..............that would very willing to invest another $ 3K for a
> 'sure thing' .......for a 100 % LEGAL , 'for real' certification.
>
> so, how come this isn't better known ? or practiced ?
> One would think, that after a decade of dealing with Subaru engine
> conversions, being on the subaruvanagon list etc..............
> this would have come to light before now.
> what say you ?    Like say some more so we know this is really the real
> deal, as it's sure odd it's not been well-talked about prior to now.
> thanks, Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
> Conversions
>
>
>> Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing... my point is that any
>> engine conversion that meets California emissions standards can be
>> certified
>> as California legal by the test lab.
>>
>> This is not for a kit, it is a single install in a single vehicle.  The
>> next
>> time you do the same conversion, it would have to go to the lab for
>> testing
>> and certification again.
>>
>> It is basically the same procedure that is performed on every vehicle
>> that
>> is imported into California.  It doesn't matter what engine is in the
>> vehicle, only that it passes the lab test.
>>
>> If it passes the lab test, it's good to go...
>>
>> Obviously, this would get expensive, but it is absolutely true.  This is
>> not
>> conjecture, it is what we do for a living.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim Akiba
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:37 PM
>> To: Jeff
>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> Conversions
>>
>> It's still false.  The statement "Any "clean" engine conversion can be
>> certified as legal in California"  can only be true if it is also the
>> case that it is not possible to have a "clean" engine conversion and
>> have it declined for certification in CA. Since it is the case that
>> having a clean engine conversion *alone* is no guarantee to getting
>> the BAR sticker, the statement is false.
>>
>> I know what you mean, but you can't speak in universals about it,
>> that's the crux of the problem.
>>
>> Jim Akiba
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> It is absolutely true.
>>>
>>> I think you are confusing my "certified as legal" as being the same as
>>> an
>>> EO.  That's not what I said.  My comment was that any clean engine
>>> conversion (not a kit) can be tested and labeled as meeting California
>>> emissions.  This is a "one off" test and is only good for that
>>> particular
>>> installation.
>>>
>>> Assumptions always cause confusion....
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Jim Akiba
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:02 AM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>>> Conversions
>>>
>>> This is not true Jeff, I don't know where you got this impression. The
>>> CARB would not even prescribe which of the two types of lab testing
>>> needed to be done via the application process. Rose Castro told me
>>> personally that if the engine came from an OBDII vehicle they defer to
>>> the BAR and nothing can be done through CARB to obtain an EO. They
>>> will not even allow you to get to the point of submitting the lab
>>> results.  Show me an OBDII conversion that is legal in CA and you'll
>>> be onto something, but until then nothing has changed.
>>>
>>> Jim Akiba
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Any "clean" engine conversion can be certified as legal in
>>>> California...
>>> IF
>>>> you are willing to pay for the testing.  Unfortunately, the testing
>>>> adds
>>>> about $3k to the cost.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>>>> Don Hanson
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:12 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: John Wessels Glori's Import offering Zetec & Subie engine.
>>> Was:
>>>> now..ignore the small stuff..?
>>>>
>>>> I've been sort of following this thread.  Since I don't actually live
>>>> in
>>>> California, I probably shouldn't chime in, but I do spend winter months
>>>> there and I've been around the Calif. beaurocracy some.  It's scary
>>>> that
>>>> other states justify stuff by pointing at California, also.
>>>>
>>>>  I have some friends who have an engine conversion company for mostly
>>>> Porsches. They were forced out of California over to Las Vegas to do
>>>> business.  Renegade Products.  They supply conversions for putting Chev
>>> V8s
>>>> into 944s and 911s.  The owner even has an LT-1 Vette motor in his 914.
>>>> (
>>>> ~500hp in a 2000 lb roller skate!)
>>>> They got so frustrated with the CARB, the DMV and all,  that they just
>>>> packed up and moved to Nevada and now do just fine out there.  Even
>> though
>>>> the conversions they sold tested much cleaner than the 80's-era turbo
>>>> Porsche motors they were replacing, they were not 'allowed' by Cali..
>>>> I
>>>> know many of their customers have their vehicles now registered in
>> Nevada,
>>>> also.   ...
>>>>
>>>
>>>