I know, I know........I meant to say I'm guilt of it too !
sorry !
just want to really understand people is all.
my apologies again.
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
Conversions

> Gee... I apologize for leaving out one word.
>
> However, you know the old saying about people who live in glass houses?
> Your emails are normally filled with spelling and grammatical errors, so I
> wouldn't start throwing those stones around...
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 12:52 PM
> To: Jeff; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
> Conversions
>
> I suspect you don't 'preef rood' your notes before sending them.
> I think you are saying .............
> your guess is that not too many people doing conversions are Registered
> Importers......
> which you are, I assume, and thus you are famililar with these testing
> labs.
>
> thanks, that makes sense.
> So how many times have you paid the $ 3K to get proper lab testing and
> certification done ?
> and if it is really ANY properly done with proper low emissions engine
> conversion .......
> there would be a lot of people willing to pay that 3,000 extra to have it
> done right and 'for sure.'
> Not being sneaky or 'not quite fully kosher' is worth a lot to some
> people.
> Thanks for addressing my question, btw.
> scott
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:22 AM
> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
> Conversions
>
>
>> My guess is that not too people doing engine conversions are Registered
>> Importers who have to get vehicles tested and certified for California on
>> a
>> regular basis?
>>
>> That's probably why it's not well known.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans [mailto:scottdaniel@turbovans.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:02 AM
>> To: Jeff; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> Conversions
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>> I've been around California smog issues and smog ref's and engine
>> conversions a fair bit, like since the 1980's at least, if not before
>> that
>> even. .
>> This is the first time I've heard that 'if you are willing to spend $
>> 3,000
>> for lab testing, ANY emissions-legal engine conversion can get passed."
>>
>> Independent labs certified to do such work in Ca, of course, I imagine.
>> but ..........what ? you just call up one of these labs, ask for an
>> appointment, leave the vehicle with them for a while and be ready to pay
>> their fee in the end, or what exactly ?
>>
>> One would think, giving the random nature of getting an OBD-II engine
>> conversion through a smog ref .........giving how 'iffy' that it, that
>> there
>>
>> are a few people with really large sums invested in their Syncro's or
>> whatever..............that would very willing to invest another $ 3K for
>> a
>> 'sure thing' .......for a 100 % LEGAL , 'for real' certification.
>>
>> so, how come this isn't better known ? or practiced ?
>> One would think, that after a decade of dealing with Subaru engine
>> conversions, being on the subaruvanagon list etc..............
>> this would have come to light before now.
>> what say you ?    Like say some more so we know this is really the real
>> deal, as it's sure odd it's not been well-talked about prior to now.
>> thanks, Scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jeff" <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>> Conversions
>>
>>
>>> Perhaps we're not talking about the same thing... my point is that any
>>> engine conversion that meets California emissions standards can be
>>> certified
>>> as California legal by the test lab.
>>>
>>> This is not for a kit, it is a single install in a single vehicle.  The
>>> next
>>> time you do the same conversion, it would have to go to the lab for
>>> testing
>>> and certification again.
>>>
>>> It is basically the same procedure that is performed on every vehicle
>>> that
>>> is imported into California.  It doesn't matter what engine is in the
>>> vehicle, only that it passes the lab test.
>>>
>>> If it passes the lab test, it's good to go...
>>>
>>> Obviously, this would get expensive, but it is absolutely true.  This is
>>> not
>>> conjecture, it is what we do for a living.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jakiba@bostig.com [mailto:jakiba@bostig.com] On Behalf Of Jim
>>> Akiba
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 1:37 PM
>>> To: Jeff
>>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
>>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>>> Conversions
>>>
>>> It's still false.  The statement "Any "clean" engine conversion can be
>>> certified as legal in California"  can only be true if it is also the
>>> case that it is not possible to have a "clean" engine conversion and
>>> have it declined for certification in CA. Since it is the case that
>>> having a clean engine conversion *alone* is no guarantee to getting
>>> the BAR sticker, the statement is false.
>>>
>>> I know what you mean, but you can't speak in universals about it,
>>> that's the crux of the problem.
>>>
>>> Jim Akiba
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Jim,
>>>>
>>>> It is absolutely true.
>>>>
>>>> I think you are confusing my "certified as legal" as being the same as
>>>> an
>>>> EO.  That's not what I said.  My comment was that any clean engine
>>>> conversion (not a kit) can be tested and labeled as meeting California
>>>> emissions.  This is a "one off" test and is only good for that
>>>> particular
>>>> installation.
>>>>
>>>> Assumptions always cause confusion....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>> Jim Akiba
>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:02 AM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Was: Re: John Wessels Glori's --- Now: California Engine
>>>> Conversions
>>>>
>>>> This is not true Jeff, I don't know where you got this impression. The
>>>> CARB would not even prescribe which of the two types of lab testing
>>>> needed to be done via the application process. Rose Castro told me
>>>> personally that if the engine came from an OBDII vehicle they defer to
>>>> the BAR and nothing can be done through CARB to obtain an EO. They
>>>> will not even allow you to get to the point of submitting the lab
>>>> results.  Show me an OBDII conversion that is legal in CA and you'll
>>>> be onto something, but until then nothing has changed.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Akiba
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Jeff <vw.doka@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Any "clean" engine conversion can be certified as legal in
>>>>> California...
>>>> IF
>>>>> you are willing to pay for the testing.  Unfortunately, the testing
>>>>> adds
>>>>> about $3k to the cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>> Of
>>>>> Don Hanson
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:12 AM
>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>> Subject: Re: John Wessels Glori's Import offering Zetec & Subie
>>>>> engine.
>>>> Was:
>>>>> now..ignore the small stuff..?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been sort of following this thread.  Since I don't actually live
>>>>> in
>>>>> California, I probably shouldn't chime in, but I do spend winter
>>>>> months
>>>>> there and I've been around the Calif. beaurocracy some.  It's scary
>>>>> that
>>>>> other states justify stuff by pointing at California, also.
>>>>>
>>>>>  I have some friends who have an engine conversion company for mostly
>>>>> Porsches. They were forced out of California over to Las Vegas to do
>>>>> business.  Renegade Products.  They supply conversions for putting
>>>>> Chev
>>>> V8s
>>>>> into 944s and 911s.  The owner even has an LT-1 Vette motor in his
>>>>> 914.
>>>>> (
>>>>> ~500hp in a 2000 lb roller skate!)
>>>>> They got so frustrated with the CARB, the DMV and all,  that they just
>>>>> packed up and moved to Nevada and now do just fine out there.  Even
>>> though
>>>>> the conversions they sold tested much cleaner than the 80's-era turbo
>>>>> Porsche motors they were replacing, they were not 'allowed' by Cali..
>>>>> I
>>>>> know many of their customers have their vehicles now registered in
>>> Nevada,
>>>>> also.   ...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>