>
> FWIW Vanagons are MUCH tougher than bays.  Hit a buck at about 10 mph
> ten years ago in my bay.  Crumpled the entire nose.  Hit the doe last

Absolutely! I remember years ago a type2 list member who hit a rather large deer with her Bay, luckily for her she had a custom made grill guard that was attached to the frame, and the frame bent from the impact and the bus was totaled. Folks actually told her that if she hadn't had the grill guard it wouldn't have bent the frame and totaled the bus! Uh, yeah, she'd just have been dead, that's all! Any former type2'ers remember the photo of the Bay that hit a cow in Mexico?       Jeff