> I don't think we're really in disagreement.

yeah, we are ... you just don't know it yet! ;)

> But people are using the vanagon list as a substitute for google
> Got a
> virus? Email the vanagon list.  Have a problem with popups? email
> the
> vanagon list.  Know someone whoes charity needs promoting?  Email
> the
> vanagon list.  Its gotten kind of out of control.  And there's no
> reason for
> it.  Getting an email about computer problems doesn't foster a sense
> of
> vanagon community, and its not a very good way to find out how to
> fix your
> computer problems (there are much better ways!).  I'm not arguing
> that all
> posts need to be technical, and say something that has never been
> said
> before.  (It is pretty much all in the archives, anyways.)  I'm
> saying the
> list is about vanagons, and posts about *completely unrelated*
> topics have
> no place here.

well, yeah, but ... see, this is the thing ... if you have a problem
with your toilet, who do you ask? a plumber? well ... yeah,
eventually. but first you go next door and ask your neighbor. so i see
the folks on the list asking The List about such things as an
indication of just how much we are a community ... that we can ask
each other about such things, instead of focusing only on the
neighborhood covenants and lawns and street and trash and house colors
and so forth. that we feel free enough to do that is, in my opinion, a
good thing ... makes me feel more like a part of a group of people,
instead of just someone who subscribed to an impersonal email list. :)

but i do understand you "young people" are frustrated at it, because
it's not what you signed up for. but my point was, the list as a group
isn't just about what i want or what you want or anybody else ... it's
about the heterogeneous mixture (concrete, if you will ... a bunch of
things mixed together that is stronger than any one of its elements)
of all of us. and if we can help the newbie non-tech
computer-illiterate members become more and more literate and able to
use the list without having to study microsoft this or that, then we
all benefit. even though we get frustrated at times.

kind of like what someone said a long time ago: "what use is a newborn
baby?" ... none. til they grow up. :)  that's the way i see the folks
who frustrate me on the list, and that's why i'm much more likely that
younger folks to tolerate and help the newbies and the computer-illits
... cause i was once like them.
long, long ago, i knew nothing about anything.
and now? i know nothing about EVERYthing!!! ;)

joel