Hear! Hear!

Well spoken!

John Rodgers
88 GL Driver

joel walker wrote:
>>> Some things need cleaning up, but mostly I would like to see the
>>> [NVC]
>>> become standard fair for off topic subjects. And to see Frydaye
>>> Follies
>>> become a permanent part of the scene.
>>
>> Some people will leave if this is done.  Already, when people first
>> sign up,
>> they are often overwhelmed by the volume of mail and back out.  If
>> half of
>> that mail is not even about vanagons, it will be that much worse.
>
> i strongly disagree.
>
> from the onset, the vanagon list has always been much more than just a
> tech list ..
>
> it's been a small cul-de-sac community of people. and people don't
> always sit around, talking over coffee and beer, about tech things.
> and some 'tech things' aren't really tech things ... do you like the
> look of the round headlights versus the 86-91 rectangular ones? South
> African headlights versus the other two types? are white-wall tires
> really only for old american cars?  which beer goes best after
> repacking your cv joints? :)
>
> the volume of mail is usually set off by differences in opinions about
> some subject, which often IS more techie than not ... like tires,
> heat, rust, and headlights ... and by "oh, that happened to me, too!"
> stories. all of which is vital to a community ... if we don't share
> stories and i-did-that-this-way opinions, then it might as well be
> every man/woman for themselves ..the human 'community' got ahead by
> HELPING each other, not by hiding secrets from the rest of the
> community. competition helps, too ... so we have more than one list
> vendor to take care of that end ... you can buy parts from several
> different places, even in canada! and germany, and belgium.  nobody in
> england or mexico yet, though. :(
>
> the Frydaye Follies are sort of a release valve for the rest of the
> week ... like Friday afternoons or "casual fridays" at work ...
> getting together at the nearby pub/bar/whatever for a beer with your
> co-workers after a long week of putting up with the boss (in our case,
> a much-discussed administrator/moderator) ... a day when tech talk
> doesn't have to be so high on the must-do list.
>
> in other words, the list is a sort of reflection of our work lives and
> our personal lives .. not just some committee meeting where technical
> schedules and difficulties are hashed out or put off til "the next
> meeting tomorrow at 2 o'clock".
>
> and i think this is a good thing. that this is the way it should be.
> it certainly worked well way back when, in the beginnings of the list,
> when most of us Vanagon owners needed a lot more than tech help ... we
> needed a support group, a clan to tell us that we weren't stupid and
> crazy for owning and loving these buses ... that it wasn't totally
> illogical and we could show the wife/whatever that there WERE other
> people out there and they were like me, and this is a good car and we
> ought to keep it.
>
> people don't always see the future the same way, even when they
> espouse the same ideals, or drive the same cars, or even live in the
> same community ... and it takes discussion to work it out so we can
> ALL be comfortable and secure and not worry about our sanity and
> safety ... and this is most definitely NON-technical, at least not
> technical about volkswagen vanagons. :)
>
> this is why i must strongly put in my own personal protest at making
> THIS list a totally tech list, without any regard for the community
> conversations most of us have enjoyed throughout the years. we've
> developed friendships (albetit over email, but some of us have
> actually MET other vanagon owners in person), and i don't think you
> get much of that spread around the community if you go tech-only. i've
> seen this happen on other lists, particularly the Type2 list, and i
> don't like it ... it reminds me waay to much of those tech committe
> meetings ... yes, they are necessary. yes, they contribute to the
> running of the world we work in and live in. but no ... they should
> NOT be the end-all be-all to life or this list.
>
>> So it seems kind of unfair to abuse their place on this list
>> by sending them things they really didn't ask for.
>
> so how unfair is it to abuse the non-tech folks who did sign up for
> 'support group' type discussions ... and just generally to hang around
> with other folks driving the same type of car, and to gain
> ammunition/information to use against the wife to keep the bus in the
> family ... with all the high-tech .blather??
> do we really care about the 930 cv joints or putting a tiico or bostig
> engine in some bus to gain horsepower and bragging rights? the great
> majority of the list members will never have the money nor the
> mechanical expertise nor even a local mechanic able to comprehend such
> technical jobs ... for us, it's just coffee-table magazines and books,
> like the picture books of Porsche 911s and Ferarris and Aston Martins
> ... and Playboys: just window dressing; pipe dreams; something to peer
> at through the dust of our dreary day-to-day lives. ;)
>
> and that's ok ... for those of us who actually do have the garage and
> money and tools and mental agility to do such things, great .. go for
> it! the rest of us will live our dull hum-drum lives vicariously
> through you, just like we do with Richard Jones's trips through the
> Rockiesk, and Frank Condelli's many trips from Canada to Mexico, and
> all the other road trips we see not nearly enough of to suit me. ;)
> are road trips to be banned from the list? they aren't technical at
> all! all subjective and opinionated.
>
> and i think very very necessary. if your neighbor goes off on
> vacation, and doesn't come over to harange you with tales of how bad
> it was in Orlando with all the 'tourists' trying to get to Disney
> World, a lot of us would feel a bit hurt ... it's kinda fun to watch
> someone try and cram a week of insanity with wife, kids, dogs, cars,
> traffic, hotels, restaurants, and all the other things that go with a
> 'road trip' into a few minutes of conversation ... at least, i enjoy
> it. and i think a lot of others on the list do, too. :)
>
> that's my opinion and you're welcome to it.
>
> unca joel
>
>